E7 all electric flat

RedFraggle

Hi. Looking for a sanity check on what I've decided.....

Buying first floor flat built 1999
Heating is:
 4 X original storage heaters (lounge, bed 1, hall, kitchen diner) which I think are Creda TSRs. 
2 wall mounted fan heaters (bath and ensuite)
1 original panel heater (bed 2).
DHW 2 year old Gledhill puracoil.
Electric shower in en suite.

I have an electric wood burner effect 2kw fan heater I'll be taking with me and putting in the lounge and also a small fan heater and small oil rad I keep for emergencies. 

I work from home (plan is in bedroom 2) permanently. I go to bed around 10:30pm. Just me in the household. 

My thoughts are:
Keep all existing stuff except NSH in bedroom 1 and replace that with modern panel heater for getting up and going to bed. Replace old panel heater in bed 2 with same purely for aesthetics and for when guests stay. 
Rely on heat from hallway NSH to provide background heat in bed 2 in the daytime. Use oil rad if not enough. 

See how it goes before deciding to upgrade NSH to quantum or similar and absolutely not anything beginning with F or sun. 

Use electric shower before 7 am and just turn the puracoil on a couple of times a week to maintain warm water for hand washing. Boil kettle to wash up once a day. 

Use fancy fan heater if lounge cold by evening in cold weather. Happy to watch TV wrapped in a blanket.

Given I work from home I'm also considering getting the NSH moved from bed 1 to bed 2. The consumer units are in the cupboard next to the existing panel heater. 

Thoughts appreciated
Thanks

Robin9

This place will cost a fortune !

Keep the NSH  -  don't replace by panel heaters.

Learn how to use the NSH

Yes to the Electric Shower before 7 but keep it to 5 mins

RedFraggle

Robin9 said:

This place will cost a fortune !

Keep the NSH  -  don't replace by panel heaters.

Learn how to use the NSH

Yes to the Electric Shower before 7 but keep it to 5 mins

It'll cost what it does but I'm keen to keep that as low as possible for this circumstance.

Most flats where I am are all electric and a flat suits my physical need for one level living that isn't a bungalow. 

Would you suggest keeping the NSH in bed 1 then? That would seem overkill to me Vs a panel heater for 1 hour a day when it's too cold. 

Edit: a fuel bill of up to £300pcm is manageable if not desirable.
Thanks

jadey2024

I have had panel heaters put in the two bedrooms. I hate them overall. They replaced the orginal storage heaters. They may require on peak rate usage depending on when you go bed and when your off peak starts.  I try to avoid using them other than when I'm forced to like for my daughters room. 
I think it is down to your lifestyle and your type of flat and if it is a cold or warm flat. My daughter's room would benefit from a storage heater again as her room gets between 10-13 degrees average in winter during the day so I'm having to use panel heater in her room during on peak most evenings now it's colder. One hour on peak rate using our 1 kwh heaters for us is equivalent to three hours off peak rate and at those starting low temps she needs it on for more than one hour and her room cools down quickly once off. We get more condensation in her room now too so for her, a panel isn't great. My room isn't as bad but it is usually a couple degree warmer and I go bed nearer my off peak start time. I found the orginal storages in bedrooms had the added benefit of heating the landing area and through in to the kitchen area. I never had to use a heater for those areas with storages on throughout but now it is freezing cold there and I get more condensation in those areas too now. I'm renting so had no choice but if I could go back, I'd beg to keep our bedroom storages. 

EssexHebridean

I’m going to pretty much agree with your opening post. Sounds like you have a similar size and layout to us, with a similar number of NSH’s installed.

First thing I’d do is establish how good the NSH in bed 1 actually is - give it a night at full power input (sleep in bed 2 if you want to not overheat!) with output turned right back to minimum, then see how long through the following day it continues to kick out heat, and to what level. If it seems decent, then your plan to swap it to Bed 2 might well be extremely practical - however there will be an electrical cost for new cabling etc, as well as for the relocation itself, so be sure the thing is going to do what you need before committing. It would also be worth getting an electrician to take a look before you do anything in case the reason for no NSH in there currently is that for some reason it’s not practical to run the E7 cabling to it. We had one moved a few years ago (also a Creda, in fact, they do last!) but for us it was relatively straightforward as it was replacing a U/S NSH in the same place. 

I suspect in fact once you get used to it and learn your way round the heaters you’ll find it’s not as expensive as most people would expect. Someone else said - REALLY learn how the heaters work, and get used to the fact that you need to develop a keen obsession with the weather for the following days to adjust them correctly. At times you’ll literally be adjusting daily. We’re currently on around £4 a day tops which is maintaining a temperature in the front room centre of the flat at lowest 18°C - and that also includes showers, hot water (immersion is usually on overnight 4-5 nights a week) and some cooking too as well as all the usual background stuff. That will increase pretty steeply once we are looking for more heat production, and this winter I’d expect anything up to £8 a day in the coldest weather, possibly a little more based on a straight doubling of last winter’s costs. 

It’s also worth having a shop around to see if you might get a better E7 deal from a different supplier once you’re in and settled. Octopus and EDF are both offering reasonably keen night rates in comparison to many at the moment (I’d recommend the former, not the latter) and might be worth a look. Also remember once on E7 to,load shift to overnight where you can - smart plugs or timer switches can be helpful for running things within the off peak period, although with you being first floor you may find yourself a bit more limited on this than we are, depending on the property construction.Your day/night split will also influence what sort of rate split is best for you, of course. 

Gerry1

Your plan probably represents the least worst options, but do think very carefully about how being all electric will affect the flat's value in a few years' time and ease of selling it.

Government energy support schemes will probably have ended; some green levies may have been transferred to gas, but electricity is likely to remain the most expensive fuel for heating if gas still represents a significant proportion of electricity generation.

Being on the first floor, options such as solar or a heat pump probably won't be realistic.

Potential buyers will be deterred If electricity has become even more prohibitively expensive.

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but although you may be still be able to cope with high heating costs, for an ever-increasing number of others it may well represent a red line.

macman

If you are on E7 then I fail to see the logic in using any device on peak rate, be it an oil filled rad, convector, or fan heater, even if temporary.
The long term plan to migrate to Quantums is however sound, especially if WFH, as you benefit from the cheap rate stored heat.

EssexHebridean

macman said:

If you are on E7 then I fail to see the logic in using any device on peak rate, be it an oil filled rad, convector, or fan heater, even if temporary.
The long term plan to migrate to Quantums is however sound, especially if WFH, as you benefit from the cheap rate stored heat.

There are times you can’t help it - For example you’ve been away for a week so have sensibly turned the NSH’s down a bit, but come back at 4pm to a freezing cold home - the only way of making it comfortable (or even “a bit more comfortable”) for that evening is to use a peak rate source of heating as it’s not possible to just “turn the thermostat” up on a NSH system as you would with GSH. There are also occasions when the temperature has dropped far further than the forecast suggested - we’ve been caught out like that in the past and we’re pretty decent at the planning ahead bit after nearly 20 years! We just factor that in to our sums around expected costs for electricity. Similarly for a quick burst of heat as the OP was talking about in the bedroom a programmable panel heater might well be sensible - not least if they can pop it on for an hour ahead of getting up, so have it running on off-peak anyway, then if it’s chilly at night look at heating the bed rather than the room - so electric blankets, hot water bottle, microwaveable wheat bags etc.

Swipe

Better to keep the bedroom storage heater on low than use a panel heater for the reason's stated previously. Rooms left to go cold all day take some heating on peak rate. My bedroom NSH on low heats my bedroom to about 16C and then only cools off to 13 or 14C by very late evening. I can top it back up to 15/16C easily with just my dehumidifier on for about 30mins when I go to bed early to watch TV.

EssexHebridean

Swipe said:

Better to keep the bedroom storage heater on low than use a panel heater for the reason's stated previously. Rooms left to go cold all day take some heating on peak rate.

A lot of folk suggest (and I’d agree) that NSH’s in bedrooms really aren’t great - and particularly older style ones, as they heat the room up a lot overnight which often affects quality of sleep. It’s the reason why we never switch the one on in our bedroom these days - it just makes sleeping impossible without opening a window, which defeats the object rather! 😂

Swipe

EssexHebridean said:

Swipe said:

Better to keep the bedroom storage heater on low than use a panel heater for the reason's stated previously. Rooms left to go cold all day take some heating on peak rate.

A lot of folk suggest (and I’d agree) that NSH’s in bedrooms really aren’t great - and particularly older style ones, as they heat the room up a lot overnight which often affects quality of sleep. It’s the reason why we never switch the one on in our bedroom these days - it just makes sleeping impossible without opening a window, which defeats the object rather! 😂

Yep, I agree which is why I only have mine on low to heat to 16C max