Indemnity insurance for new boiler/windows with no building regs?

FTB565

Hi all, I'm buying a house and have just been told by my solicitor that there's a title defect, because the current owners had a new boiler and windows installed a couple of years ago without them being signed off by building regulations.

I'm not an expert but I've been looking into it and it looks like they should be able to get both inspected and signed off retrospectively, presumably solving the issue. 

I can't understand why the solicitor has instead sent a draft indemnity policy - I can only assume it's out of laziness and wanting to get the sale done??

Any advice on what to do would be great. I don't think we should accept the indemnity policy, and should instead push for sellers to get the works properly inspected and signed off, but may be missing something?

Thanks!

Section62

Who did the installation work?  Is it a case of missing notifications, or that the work was DIYed?

TheJP

New boiler doesn't need building regs. Its best to have a gas safe certification however. Again new windows that are replacing a window that was already there doesn't need building regs but a FENSA certificate is beneficial.

TheJP

Also its highly doubtful anyone is going to come and regulate/enforce the lack of certs. You can check on FENSA website if there is certification for the property and you can check the gas safe website to see if its on their system. New certs if on the systems would cost less than £20 for both.

Jon_Lex

The FENSA certificate (for windows) and GasSafe Cert (for boiler) are competent installers certificates for the works - they are essentially the Building Regs Certificates. I presume they are required as part of your lender's requirements.

The solicitor is suggesting the indemnity policy as a quick way round the solution. You could insist they get regularisation certificates from building control, but that is likely to be overkill and will take months.

Mutton_Geoff

Section62 said:

Who did the installation work?  Is it a case of missing notifications, or that the work was DIYed?

Seconded. If it's DIY, I'd be seriously concerned about the quality of workmanship and what else that had been done in the house, eg electrics. Indemnity policies are not the answer, sending in your own experts (ie ask for full gas safe check and electrical check to be done, you should be able to assess the windows for yourself).

Section62

TheJP said:

New boiler doesn't need building regs. Its best to have a gas safe certification however. Again new windows that are replacing a window that was already there doesn't need building regs but a FENSA certificate is beneficial.

Heat producing appliances, including boilers, are covered by the building regulations.  As with windows, the installation of a new boiler is usually notified through the scheme used by the installer.

Replacing an existing window does require notification/approval, depending on whether a registered installer is used or the work is DIYed.

The lack of 'signoff' might indicate the work was DIYed or done by someone who isn't approved/registered.  Or there was another reason why notification/signoff wasn't done.

Bendy_House

Hi FTB.

I would confirm with your conveyancer WHAT this indemnity policy covers.

IF it would FULLY cover the cost of making good any part of either installation that's found lacking - and worst case could theoretically be that they are removed and refitted - then I 'guess' you are pretty well covered.

On that basis - if the idea is to save time - them I think I'd be 'happy' to proceed, and apply for BC checks as soon as the house is bought.

BuT, get in writing that the policy WILL allow you to do this - for YOU to actually ask BC to come out and assess the work, and sign it off. Because many Ind Policies are only to protect you if, say, BC make the 'unexpected' decision to check it - say if someone told them "X is having a lot of work done on their house - I think it's all DIYed including gas work - I'm worried about safety - can you check it out?"

So, if this policy won't cover the cost of YOU making a retrospective application, and carrying out any remedial action, then it's worth next to jack, isn't it?

There will also likely remain the concern for why they seemingly HADN'T had this done properly in the first place. What does this say about them, and what else in the house was done like this - any electrical changes, etc.

You could also call up BC anonymously and ask about this scenario - "How long would it take for you to come out and check the window install and confirm it's compliant?". For the boiler, that would be a GasSafe's job.

Section62

Bendy_House said:

...and worst case could theoretically be that they are removed and refitted...

The worst case with the boiler could be that it has been installed in a location where it shouldn't/cannot be and the removal/refitting involves finding a different location for it plus making all the pipework alterations.

There's no evidence that's the case here, but one of the reasons people (unlawfully) DIY jobs is because no professional would do it the way the person wants - knowing that it cannot be done that way and comply with the regs etc.

Bendy_House said:

You could also call up BC anonymously and ask about this scenario - "How long would it take for you to come out and check the window install and confirm it's compliant?". For the boiler, that would be a GasSafe's job.

BC would want to be paid for this, and may not give much information of use to an anonymous caller.  Typically BC would employ a GasSafe/registered installer to check the boiler (and heating) installation, which would be a chargeable service.

eddddy

Section62 said:

Typically BC would employ a GasSafe/registered installer to check the boiler (and heating) installation, which would be a chargeable service.

FWIW, some recent experience of this...

Most GasSafe engineers said there was no way they would inspect and sign-off a boiler installed by somebody else. The risks are much too high. (One mentioned that there could be hidden 'botches' which later fail, and he could end up in prison if he signs that off.)

Some said they might sign it off, but it would involve completely removing the boiler and essentially reinstalling it from scratch - to make sure everything is done correctly.

But perhaps others have had different experiences.

TheJP

Section62 said:

TheJP said:

New boiler doesn't need building regs. Its best to have a gas safe certification however. Again new windows that are replacing a window that was already there doesn't need building regs but a FENSA certificate is beneficial.

Heat producing appliances, including boilers, are covered by the building regulations.  As with windows, the installation of a new boiler is usually notified through the scheme used by the installer.

Replacing an existing window does require notification/approval, depending on whether a registered installer is used or the work is DIYed.

The lack of 'signoff' might indicate the work was DIYed or done by someone who isn't approved/registered.  Or there was another reason why notification/signoff wasn't done.

Hence why I've suggested checking the gas safe register and FENSA, you can see for free if the works are on their system and then get the vendor to purchase the certificates.