Indemnity insurance for new boiler/windows with no building regs?

silvercar

macman said:

I would be extremely concerned if the boiler install is not GSR registered. If done by a GSR registered installer, there is no possible reason for no cert. It means a) the installer may not be competent, and is working illegally, b) the install may not be safe, and c) the boiler warranty (which can be up to ten years) will automatically be void.
No sane RGI is going to retrospectively certify someone else's work, because at that point he assumes legal liability for any defects.

We bought a house where the seller provided a gas safety certificate unprompted but there was no installation registration. We registered it with the manufacturer to get the warranty when we moved in. When they queried why it hadn’t been registered before I just explained that we had only just moved in and I had no knowledge of what the previous owner did or didn’t do. They accepted that. While under warranty it did develop a fault and they did fix it free of charge.

FTB565

Thanks so much everyone. Have looked through the documents we have further - our solicitor has sent us an invoice for the boiler installation in 2020, and the company is Gas Safe registered, but the work itself doesn't look to have been registered/notified. That invoice from the heating company states that an electrician also needed to do the final bit of the installation, and we have another document which is a NAPIT certificate about that electrical part of the boiler installlation. The NAPIT certificate even states that a building regulations certificate would be sent through within 30 days. So it seems very strange to me - the work appears to have been carried out legitimately by registered companies (not a DIY job!) but the paperwork all seems to be missing.

I'm putting the questions to my solicitor to find out why the seller can't get all these certificates reissued by the companies who did the work originally, and/or get them to come and inspect the boiler to sign it off as Gas Safe. Does anyone know if there's a reason a company wouldn't do this, if they'd done the original work?

My suspicion at this point is that both the solicitors on either side just can't be bothered to get the paperwork in order and instead opting for this indemnity insurance policy. Everything I've read says sellers are supposed to get this paperwork in order before planning to sell, so I can only assume they weren't told this by their side as it could have all been sorted by now.

TheJP

FTB565 said:

Thanks so much everyone. Have looked through the documents we have further - our solicitor has sent us an invoice for the boiler installation in 2020, and the company is Gas Safe registered, but the work itself doesn't look to have been registered/notified. That invoice from the heating company states that an electrician also needed to do the final bit of the installation, and we have another document which is a NAPIT certificate about that electrical part of the boiler installlation. The NAPIT certificate even states that a building regulations certificate would be sent through within 30 days. So it seems very strange to me - the work appears to have been carried out legitimately by registered companies (not a DIY job!) but the paperwork all seems to be missing.

I'm putting the questions to my solicitor to find out why the seller can't get all these certificates reissued by the companies who did the work originally, and/or get them to come and inspect the boiler to sign it off as Gas Safe. Does anyone know if there's a reason a company wouldn't do this, if they'd done the original work?

My suspicion at this point is that both the solicitors on either side just can't be bothered to get the paperwork in order and instead opting for this indemnity insurance policy. Everything I've read says sellers are supposed to get this paperwork in order before planning to sell, so I can only assume they weren't told this by their side as it could have all been sorted by now.

So at least you know the installation was carried out by a gas safe installer, what could have happened was documents were either lost in post or someone forgot to send them. All this takes is for another or the same gas safe registered engineer to check over the boiler. I doubt its an issue between the solicitors as the seller should have put all this forward however you checked the gas safe website and it wasn't there.

TheJP

subjecttocontract said:

If there is no GSR registration it's a bit like buying a place without central heating and the price should reflect that. No indemnity policy is going to help when you sell the place on.

Overly dramatic. Posts like this is why FTBs often run for the hills regarding perfectly fine houses.

TheJP

macman said:

I would be extremely concerned if the boiler install is not GSR registered. If done by a GSR registered installer, there is no possible reason for no cert. It means a) the installer may not be competent, and is working illegally, b) the install may not be safe, and c) the boiler warranty (which can be up to ten years) will automatically be void.
No sane RGI is going to retrospectively certify someone else's work, because at that point he assumes legal liability for any defects.

They wouldn't certify anything if they didn't believe it was safely installed, retrospective checks happen all the time. The engineer who installed my boiler does this as pocket money for the weekend, quick job with everything checked against regulations, anything not quite there he fixes. Easy money he said. Cert issued. Its very common.

MikeJXE

This is why your solicitor sent you the policy

Lack of building regulations insurance protects you against enforcement action taken by the local authority for works carried out to your property for which there is no planning permission and/or building regulations approval.

What is insured?

Loss you incur which arises out of an insured risk and includes:

• Damage, compensation, costs and/or expenses (but not fines or other penalties) which you have to pay because of a court order;
• The amount by which the value of the property is reduced by the effect of a court order;
• Any other costs and expenses you incur with the insurer’s written consent because of an insured risk.

What has been said on other reply's regarding boiler and windows are true, you don't need building regs for them but if you haven't got the relevant certificates you are in contravention of building regs

Bendy_House

user1977 said:

Bendy_House said:

I would confirm with your conveyancer WHAT this indemnity policy covers.

IF it would FULLY cover the cost of making good any part of either installation that's found lacking - and worst case could theoretically be that they are removed and refitted - then I 'guess' you are pretty well covered.

On that basis - if the idea is to save time - them I think I'd be 'happy' to proceed, and apply for BC checks as soon as the house is bought.

BuT, get in writing that the policy WILL allow you to do this - for YOU to actually ask BC to come out and assess the work, and sign it off. 

No, it won't cover that, so there's no point asking.

Thanks, User.

So what the hell is the point of most indemnity policies?! What do they actually protect against in practice?

Section62

MikeJXE said:

What has been said on other reply's regarding boiler and windows are true, you don't need building regs for them but if you haven't got the relevant certificates you are in contravention of building regs

No, the replies saying that were wrong.  Boilers and windows are covered by the building regulations and compliance is non-optional.

If the work is done by a registered installer and they submit the notification to LABC then the requirements of the building regulations are deemed to be met.

user1977

Bendy_House said:

user1977 said:

Bendy_House said:

I would confirm with your conveyancer WHAT this indemnity policy covers.

IF it would FULLY cover the cost of making good any part of either installation that's found lacking - and worst case could theoretically be that they are removed and refitted - then I 'guess' you are pretty well covered.

On that basis - if the idea is to save time - them I think I'd be 'happy' to proceed, and apply for BC checks as soon as the house is bought.

BuT, get in writing that the policy WILL allow you to do this - for YOU to actually ask BC to come out and assess the work, and sign it off. 

No, it won't cover that, so there's no point asking.

Thanks, User.

So what the hell is the point of most indemnity policies?! What do they actually protect against in practice?

The same as they did when we had this conversation last month!

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79573679/#Comment_79573679

macman

TheJP said:

macman said:

I would be extremely concerned if the boiler install is not GSR registered. If done by a GSR registered installer, there is no possible reason for no cert. It means a) the installer may not be competent, and is working illegally, b) the install may not be safe, and c) the boiler warranty (which can be up to ten years) will automatically be void.
No sane RGI is going to retrospectively certify someone else's work, because at that point he assumes legal liability for any defects.

They wouldn't certify anything if they didn't believe it was safely installed, retrospective checks happen all the time. The engineer who installed my boiler does this as pocket money for the weekend, quick job with everything checked against regulations, anything not quite there he fixes. Easy money he said. Cert issued. Its very common.

That would depend on the nature of the install. If the install is partly concealed (pipe runs under floor boards, flue run in ducting etc, then it's just not possible for someone to come along subsequently and guarantee every aspect of it as being compliant and safe without some dismantling being required. That is not a quick job. Otherwise, it may be easy money, but many RGI's would just not do it.