EVs to pay road tax from 2025

Grumpy_chap

RichardD1970 said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Tahlullah.H said:

Stubod said:

..still wondering how they will recoup the tax that will be lost from petrol/diesel when most cars go electric. The tax generated from this still needs to come frrom somewhere?

...possibly a tax per mile using gps based tech??

This will not work without bringing a large section of the country to a grinding halt, and its the bits you may not think of, but you need to be working - the countryside. 
Many who live in the countryside are nowhere near large cities and do not have the transport networks in place for them to jump on a bus or the underground to get to work on time.  I live 30 miles from the nearest mainline train station and on a standard working day, I would arrive at work at 2.00pm, once I have used all the trains, plains and automobiles required to get me from the countryside to the city I work in. 
Therefore, I drive on a range of roads, B, A and motorways, covering over 150 miles to get to work and that is one way.  This suggestion will not work for rural communities.  If the country wants to eat, it needs to think of an alternative to 'tax per mile'.
If I were to follow the often misquotes Norman Tebbit (I did have to travel to find work), I might get to work on Wednesday, if on my bike.

That's notwithstanding the administrative effort that would be required to administer it all.  Data suggests that the average person in the UK makes an average of 380 separate journeys a year by car.  Are we really suggesting that all of those journeys, recall there are 67 million of us, are to be tracked on an individual basis?  How?  Roadside cameras, satellites and car mounted devices are an idea, but it all seems wildly impractical.  What's to stop someone disabling the gadget?  

And think of all the appeals!  'You charged me for five miles, but I've measured and it was four miles and sixteen hundred yards!  I want my ha'penny back...'  'You say I was in Dorchester on Thursday, but I wasn't.  I was in Dorchester on Wednesday and Doncaster on Thursday; or Doncaster on Tuesday and Tadcaster on Wednesday...'  Half the country would have to be employed to deal with the complaints made by the other half of the country feeling peeved about incorrectly recorded car journeys.  

Odometer readings are taken at the time of the MOT. Even though you don't need one for 3 years how difficult would it be to just go in and have it recorded on the anniversary of registration and be subsequently billed for tax owed?

What about cars with no working odometer?

RichardD1970

Grumpy_chap said:

RichardD1970 said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Tahlullah.H said:

Stubod said:

..still wondering how they will recoup the tax that will be lost from petrol/diesel when most cars go electric. The tax generated from this still needs to come frrom somewhere?

...possibly a tax per mile using gps based tech??

This will not work without bringing a large section of the country to a grinding halt, and its the bits you may not think of, but you need to be working - the countryside. 
Many who live in the countryside are nowhere near large cities and do not have the transport networks in place for them to jump on a bus or the underground to get to work on time.  I live 30 miles from the nearest mainline train station and on a standard working day, I would arrive at work at 2.00pm, once I have used all the trains, plains and automobiles required to get me from the countryside to the city I work in. 
Therefore, I drive on a range of roads, B, A and motorways, covering over 150 miles to get to work and that is one way.  This suggestion will not work for rural communities.  If the country wants to eat, it needs to think of an alternative to 'tax per mile'.
If I were to follow the often misquotes Norman Tebbit (I did have to travel to find work), I might get to work on Wednesday, if on my bike.

That's notwithstanding the administrative effort that would be required to administer it all.  Data suggests that the average person in the UK makes an average of 380 separate journeys a year by car.  Are we really suggesting that all of those journeys, recall there are 67 million of us, are to be tracked on an individual basis?  How?  Roadside cameras, satellites and car mounted devices are an idea, but it all seems wildly impractical.  What's to stop someone disabling the gadget?  

And think of all the appeals!  'You charged me for five miles, but I've measured and it was four miles and sixteen hundred yards!  I want my ha'penny back...'  'You say I was in Dorchester on Thursday, but I wasn't.  I was in Dorchester on Wednesday and Doncaster on Thursday; or Doncaster on Tuesday and Tadcaster on Wednesday...'  Half the country would have to be employed to deal with the complaints made by the other half of the country feeling peeved about incorrectly recorded car journeys.  

Odometer readings are taken at the time of the MOT. Even though you don't need one for 3 years how difficult would it be to just go in and have it recorded on the anniversary of registration and be subsequently billed for tax owed?

What about cars with no working odometer?

Don't know. Is it a big issue? How many are there? I assumed it was a requirement to have a working odo in a car used on public roads. 

Ditzy_Mitzy

RichardD1970 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

RichardD1970 said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Tahlullah.H said:

Stubod said:

..still wondering how they will recoup the tax that will be lost from petrol/diesel when most cars go electric. The tax generated from this still needs to come frrom somewhere?

...possibly a tax per mile using gps based tech??

This will not work without bringing a large section of the country to a grinding halt, and its the bits you may not think of, but you need to be working - the countryside. 
Many who live in the countryside are nowhere near large cities and do not have the transport networks in place for them to jump on a bus or the underground to get to work on time.  I live 30 miles from the nearest mainline train station and on a standard working day, I would arrive at work at 2.00pm, once I have used all the trains, plains and automobiles required to get me from the countryside to the city I work in. 
Therefore, I drive on a range of roads, B, A and motorways, covering over 150 miles to get to work and that is one way.  This suggestion will not work for rural communities.  If the country wants to eat, it needs to think of an alternative to 'tax per mile'.
If I were to follow the often misquotes Norman Tebbit (I did have to travel to find work), I might get to work on Wednesday, if on my bike.

That's notwithstanding the administrative effort that would be required to administer it all.  Data suggests that the average person in the UK makes an average of 380 separate journeys a year by car.  Are we really suggesting that all of those journeys, recall there are 67 million of us, are to be tracked on an individual basis?  How?  Roadside cameras, satellites and car mounted devices are an idea, but it all seems wildly impractical.  What's to stop someone disabling the gadget?  

And think of all the appeals!  'You charged me for five miles, but I've measured and it was four miles and sixteen hundred yards!  I want my ha'penny back...'  'You say I was in Dorchester on Thursday, but I wasn't.  I was in Dorchester on Wednesday and Doncaster on Thursday; or Doncaster on Tuesday and Tadcaster on Wednesday...'  Half the country would have to be employed to deal with the complaints made by the other half of the country feeling peeved about incorrectly recorded car journeys.  

Odometer readings are taken at the time of the MOT. Even though you don't need one for 3 years how difficult would it be to just go in and have it recorded on the anniversary of registration and be subsequently billed for tax owed?

What about cars with no working odometer?

Don't know. Is it a big issue? How many are there? I assumed it was a requirement to have a working odo in a car used on public roads. 

Firstly, there is no requirement for an odometer to be working or, indeed, accurate and, secondly, broken odometers would become a much bigger issue than they presently are if road pricing were to be introduced per your suggestion.  A family member used to have a BMW with a broken digital odometer; it passed MOTs fine, but the mileage was recorded as 'unreadable' or similar on the certificate.  

Grumpy_chap

RichardD1970 said:

Don't know. Is it a big issue? How many are there? I assumed it was a requirement to have a working odo in a car used on public roads. 

Able to pass the MOT without an odometer display.

I don't know how many cars there are like this - there are at least 2.  My (now my Nephew's) Focus and Ditzy's family member's BMW.  It would be a remarkable thing if all cars without a working odometer were referenced in this thread.

I suspect the number is higher now than back when we had analogue instruments.  Then, again, how accurate was the analogue instrument only going to 99,999 and then back to zero?

Stubod

...could always set a "maximum" charge regardless of any "excess" mileage, (eg 25k miles), and if no oddometer reading available then just charge the maximum amount?

Herzlos

It'd be easier to just charge everyone the maximum and be done with it.

Maybe having the charge linked to the vehicle weight would be the fairest option - that way a 3000kg  SUV will be more expensive to tax than a 1500kg supermini.

RichardD1970

Grumpy_chap said:

RichardD1970 said:

Don't know. Is it a big issue? How many are there? I assumed it was a requirement to have a working odo in a car used on public roads. 

Able to pass the MOT without an odometer display.

I don't know how many cars there are like this - there are at least 2.  My (now my Nephew's) Focus and Ditzy's family member's BMW.  It would be a remarkable thing if all cars without a working odometer were referenced in this thread.

I suspect the number is higher now than back when we had analogue instruments.  Then, again, how accurate was the analogue instrument only going to 99,999 and then back to zero?

Like I said, I assumed it was a requirement to have a working odo. If it's not then that does change the game. Either way they will eventually have to find a way to recoup the lost revenue from tax on fuel sales, I just thought this would be a relative simple solution for charging by the mile.

If they go down the tech route with GPS/ANPR tracking etc, then judging on past government IT projects, it will probably cost a lot more to implement than it raises and be full of issues. 

As Herzlos said above, flat rate based on vehicle weight would seem easiest, but then removes any connection with usage. 

Car_54

Herzlos said:

It'd be easier to just charge everyone the maximum and be done with it.

Maybe having the charge linked to the vehicle weight would be the fairest option - that way a 3000kg  SUV will be more expensive to tax than a 1500kg supermini.

In what way would that be 'fairer'? It seems no less arbitrary than charging white cars more than black (which BTW I'd wold support).

Herzlos

Car_54 said:

Herzlos said:

It'd be easier to just charge everyone the maximum and be done with it.

Maybe having the charge linked to the vehicle weight would be the fairest option - that way a 3000kg  SUV will be more expensive to tax than a 1500kg supermini.

In what way would that be 'fairer'? It seems no less arbitrary than charging white cars more than black (which BTW I'd wold support).

Bigger cars are more likely to have more people and stuff in em, will be driven by people in a better financial position and will be worse for roads/congestion/environment.

Assuming of course that we want to keep trying to incentivize more socially and environmentally responsible vehicles, and have the financial burden paid by those that are better able to afford it.

I certainly don't mind paying a bit more tax for a bigger car but a lot of people would resent having to pay the same tax for a Vauxhall Corsa-e and a Tesla Model X.

Of course, basing it on list price or a combination of list price and weight would may be better.

MattMattMattUK

Grumpy_chap said:

RichardD1970 said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Tahlullah.H said:

Stubod said:

..still wondering how they will recoup the tax that will be lost from petrol/diesel when most cars go electric. The tax generated from this still needs to come frrom somewhere?

...possibly a tax per mile using gps based tech??

This will not work without bringing a large section of the country to a grinding halt, and its the bits you may not think of, but you need to be working - the countryside. 
Many who live in the countryside are nowhere near large cities and do not have the transport networks in place for them to jump on a bus or the underground to get to work on time.  I live 30 miles from the nearest mainline train station and on a standard working day, I would arrive at work at 2.00pm, once I have used all the trains, plains and automobiles required to get me from the countryside to the city I work in. 
Therefore, I drive on a range of roads, B, A and motorways, covering over 150 miles to get to work and that is one way.  This suggestion will not work for rural communities.  If the country wants to eat, it needs to think of an alternative to 'tax per mile'.
If I were to follow the often misquotes Norman Tebbit (I did have to travel to find work), I might get to work on Wednesday, if on my bike.

That's notwithstanding the administrative effort that would be required to administer it all.  Data suggests that the average person in the UK makes an average of 380 separate journeys a year by car.  Are we really suggesting that all of those journeys, recall there are 67 million of us, are to be tracked on an individual basis?  How?  Roadside cameras, satellites and car mounted devices are an idea, but it all seems wildly impractical.  What's to stop someone disabling the gadget?  

And think of all the appeals!  'You charged me for five miles, but I've measured and it was four miles and sixteen hundred yards!  I want my ha'penny back...'  'You say I was in Dorchester on Thursday, but I wasn't.  I was in Dorchester on Wednesday and Doncaster on Thursday; or Doncaster on Tuesday and Tadcaster on Wednesday...'  Half the country would have to be employed to deal with the complaints made by the other half of the country feeling peeved about incorrectly recorded car journeys.  

Odometer readings are taken at the time of the MOT. Even though you don't need one for 3 years how difficult would it be to just go in and have it recorded on the anniversary of registration and be subsequently billed for tax owed?

What about cars with no working odometer?

MOT fail, penalty charge based on a very high mileage, points on the license of the registered keeper?