EVs to pay road tax from 2025

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Car_54 said:

Since ‘road tax’ has nothing to do with roads, there is no justification for targeting road users to make up the shortfall in revenue, rather than (say) footballers or model train enthusiasts. Or politicians.

The justification is that The Government need gazillions of pounds to give to their friends run the country.

The rich aren't ever going to pay it, the very poor can't pay it, so it has to fall on the people in the middle to fund everything.

So they tax everything they can. Earn money? tax what they earn, spend money? tax what they buy. watch TV? tax it, go to a football match or a concert? tax it, own a car? tax it..............

Jenni_D

RichardD1970 said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Tahlullah.H said:

Stubod said:

..still wondering how they will recoup the tax that will be lost from petrol/diesel when most cars go electric. The tax generated from this still needs to come frrom somewhere?

...possibly a tax per mile using gps based tech??

This will not work without bringing a large section of the country to a grinding halt, and its the bits you may not think of, but you need to be working - the countryside. 
Many who live in the countryside are nowhere near large cities and do not have the transport networks in place for them to jump on a bus or the underground to get to work on time.  I live 30 miles from the nearest mainline train station and on a standard working day, I would arrive at work at 2.00pm, once I have used all the trains, plains and automobiles required to get me from the countryside to the city I work in. 
Therefore, I drive on a range of roads, B, A and motorways, covering over 150 miles to get to work and that is one way.  This suggestion will not work for rural communities.  If the country wants to eat, it needs to think of an alternative to 'tax per mile'.
If I were to follow the often misquotes Norman Tebbit (I did have to travel to find work), I might get to work on Wednesday, if on my bike.

That's notwithstanding the administrative effort that would be required to administer it all.  Data suggests that the average person in the UK makes an average of 380 separate journeys a year by car.  Are we really suggesting that all of those journeys, recall there are 67 million of us, are to be tracked on an individual basis?  How?  Roadside cameras, satellites and car mounted devices are an idea, but it all seems wildly impractical.  What's to stop someone disabling the gadget?  

And think of all the appeals!  'You charged me for five miles, but I've measured and it was four miles and sixteen hundred yards!  I want my ha'penny back...'  'You say I was in Dorchester on Thursday, but I wasn't.  I was in Dorchester on Wednesday and Doncaster on Thursday; or Doncaster on Tuesday and Tadcaster on Wednesday...'  Half the country would have to be employed to deal with the complaints made by the other half of the country feeling peeved about incorrectly recorded car journeys.  

Odometer readings are taken at the time of the MOT. Even though you don't need one for 3 years how difficult would it be to just go in and have it recorded on the anniversary of registration and be subsequently billed for tax owed?

And if you don't go in and register your annual mileage?

RichardD1970

Jenni_D said:

RichardD1970 said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Tahlullah.H said:

Stubod said:

..still wondering how they will recoup the tax that will be lost from petrol/diesel when most cars go electric. The tax generated from this still needs to come frrom somewhere?

...possibly a tax per mile using gps based tech??

This will not work without bringing a large section of the country to a grinding halt, and its the bits you may not think of, but you need to be working - the countryside. 
Many who live in the countryside are nowhere near large cities and do not have the transport networks in place for them to jump on a bus or the underground to get to work on time.  I live 30 miles from the nearest mainline train station and on a standard working day, I would arrive at work at 2.00pm, once I have used all the trains, plains and automobiles required to get me from the countryside to the city I work in. 
Therefore, I drive on a range of roads, B, A and motorways, covering over 150 miles to get to work and that is one way.  This suggestion will not work for rural communities.  If the country wants to eat, it needs to think of an alternative to 'tax per mile'.
If I were to follow the often misquotes Norman Tebbit (I did have to travel to find work), I might get to work on Wednesday, if on my bike.

That's notwithstanding the administrative effort that would be required to administer it all.  Data suggests that the average person in the UK makes an average of 380 separate journeys a year by car.  Are we really suggesting that all of those journeys, recall there are 67 million of us, are to be tracked on an individual basis?  How?  Roadside cameras, satellites and car mounted devices are an idea, but it all seems wildly impractical.  What's to stop someone disabling the gadget?  

And think of all the appeals!  'You charged me for five miles, but I've measured and it was four miles and sixteen hundred yards!  I want my ha'penny back...'  'You say I was in Dorchester on Thursday, but I wasn't.  I was in Dorchester on Wednesday and Doncaster on Thursday; or Doncaster on Tuesday and Tadcaster on Wednesday...'  Half the country would have to be employed to deal with the complaints made by the other half of the country feeling peeved about incorrectly recorded car journeys.  

Odometer readings are taken at the time of the MOT. Even though you don't need one for 3 years how difficult would it be to just go in and have it recorded on the anniversary of registration and be subsequently billed for tax owed?

And if you don't go in and register your annual mileage?

Then it's the same as all those motorist, who, at the moment don't pay their tax, get insurance etc.

Jenni_D

RichardD1970 said:

Jenni_D said:

RichardD1970 said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Tahlullah.H said:

Stubod said:

..still wondering how they will recoup the tax that will be lost from petrol/diesel when most cars go electric. The tax generated from this still needs to come frrom somewhere?

...possibly a tax per mile using gps based tech??

This will not work without bringing a large section of the country to a grinding halt, and its the bits you may not think of, but you need to be working - the countryside. 
Many who live in the countryside are nowhere near large cities and do not have the transport networks in place for them to jump on a bus or the underground to get to work on time.  I live 30 miles from the nearest mainline train station and on a standard working day, I would arrive at work at 2.00pm, once I have used all the trains, plains and automobiles required to get me from the countryside to the city I work in. 
Therefore, I drive on a range of roads, B, A and motorways, covering over 150 miles to get to work and that is one way.  This suggestion will not work for rural communities.  If the country wants to eat, it needs to think of an alternative to 'tax per mile'.
If I were to follow the often misquotes Norman Tebbit (I did have to travel to find work), I might get to work on Wednesday, if on my bike.

That's notwithstanding the administrative effort that would be required to administer it all.  Data suggests that the average person in the UK makes an average of 380 separate journeys a year by car.  Are we really suggesting that all of those journeys, recall there are 67 million of us, are to be tracked on an individual basis?  How?  Roadside cameras, satellites and car mounted devices are an idea, but it all seems wildly impractical.  What's to stop someone disabling the gadget?  

And think of all the appeals!  'You charged me for five miles, but I've measured and it was four miles and sixteen hundred yards!  I want my ha'penny back...'  'You say I was in Dorchester on Thursday, but I wasn't.  I was in Dorchester on Wednesday and Doncaster on Thursday; or Doncaster on Tuesday and Tadcaster on Wednesday...'  Half the country would have to be employed to deal with the complaints made by the other half of the country feeling peeved about incorrectly recorded car journeys.  

Odometer readings are taken at the time of the MOT. Even though you don't need one for 3 years how difficult would it be to just go in and have it recorded on the anniversary of registration and be subsequently billed for tax owed?

And if you don't go in and register your annual mileage?

Then it's the same as all those motorist, who, at the moment don't pay their tax, get insurance etc.

Yes - the vast majority of whom "get away with it". So the enforcement side of things would need to be beefed up ... which would be an additional cost to the government (i.e. us).

Ditzy_Mitzy

RichardD1970 said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Tahlullah.H said:

Stubod said:

..still wondering how they will recoup the tax that will be lost from petrol/diesel when most cars go electric. The tax generated from this still needs to come frrom somewhere?

...possibly a tax per mile using gps based tech??

This will not work without bringing a large section of the country to a grinding halt, and its the bits you may not think of, but you need to be working - the countryside. 
Many who live in the countryside are nowhere near large cities and do not have the transport networks in place for them to jump on a bus or the underground to get to work on time.  I live 30 miles from the nearest mainline train station and on a standard working day, I would arrive at work at 2.00pm, once I have used all the trains, plains and automobiles required to get me from the countryside to the city I work in. 
Therefore, I drive on a range of roads, B, A and motorways, covering over 150 miles to get to work and that is one way.  This suggestion will not work for rural communities.  If the country wants to eat, it needs to think of an alternative to 'tax per mile'.
If I were to follow the often misquotes Norman Tebbit (I did have to travel to find work), I might get to work on Wednesday, if on my bike.

That's notwithstanding the administrative effort that would be required to administer it all.  Data suggests that the average person in the UK makes an average of 380 separate journeys a year by car.  Are we really suggesting that all of those journeys, recall there are 67 million of us, are to be tracked on an individual basis?  How?  Roadside cameras, satellites and car mounted devices are an idea, but it all seems wildly impractical.  What's to stop someone disabling the gadget?  

And think of all the appeals!  'You charged me for five miles, but I've measured and it was four miles and sixteen hundred yards!  I want my ha'penny back...'  'You say I was in Dorchester on Thursday, but I wasn't.  I was in Dorchester on Wednesday and Doncaster on Thursday; or Doncaster on Tuesday and Tadcaster on Wednesday...'  Half the country would have to be employed to deal with the complaints made by the other half of the country feeling peeved about incorrectly recorded car journeys.  

Odometer readings are taken at the time of the MOT. Even though you don't need one for 3 years how difficult would it be to just go in and have it recorded on the anniversary of registration and be subsequently billed for tax owed?

Every road pricing model proposed thus far has had an element of tariff variation, as a sop to those who would naturally oppose it on the basis that the present flat rate car tax is cheaper.  It's the usual modern world 'pay as you go' orthodoxy, which always claims to save money whilst costing more and relies on pricing being somewhat opaque.  Were your flat rate to be used, say a 'block' of 1,000 miles costs £50, it would be too easy for people to work out what they were being charged and would lead to opposition.  Such a system may suit some people, but on the other hand having to pay £5,000 to drive 100,000 miles is rather steep.  The answer is a confusing system of variable pricing, which leaves motorists with no idea of what's going on and what individual journeys will cost.  Kafka-esque, but modern money management often is.  Tracking of individual vehicles would, therefore, be necessary.

One also must account for the fact that it is very easy to 'clock' a modern car.  All that's needed is a laptop and the correct OBD adaptor thingy.  

RichardD1970

There are numerous clean air/ congestion charge zones in the UK which track when you enter them, and extensive ANPR coverage of motorways and main roads. 

[Deleted User]

Ectophile said:

Deleted_User said:

VED is a nominal pollution tax and is nothing to do with the roads - local repairs are done by the council, national road works are done from central government funds.

It isn't really that any more.  It was for a few years, but then people started buying more efficient cars, and the government lost too much money.  It's now basically a car tax, with extra added on if you can afford an expensive car.

But at least the government didn't suddenly start taxing existing cars at the new rates, which is what they are going to do with EVs.

It is though, it's not used for road repairs, it's based on emissions and goes to a central pot.

billy2shots

There will always be people abusing the system as in every other area of life. 

People won't MOT or unsure their cars, won't declare details, will use clone plates but...

I'm firmly for 'pay as you go' tax. 

Link to MOT and Insurance renewal. I've just started with a new insurer and had to send millage proof to them (Adrian Flux). Not a big deal. 

£20 for each 1,000 miles. Jobs a good'en. 

[Deleted User]

Tahlullah.H said:

Stubod said:

..still wondering how they will recoup the tax that will be lost from petrol/diesel when most cars go electric. The tax generated from this still needs to come frrom somewhere?

...possibly a tax per mile using gps based tech??

This will not work without bringing a large section of the country to a grinding halt, and its the bits you may not think of, but you need to be working - the countryside. 
Many who live in the countryside are nowhere near large cities and do not have the transport networks in place for them to jump on a bus or the underground to get to work on time.  I live 30 miles from the nearest mainline train station and on a standard working day, I would arrive at work at 2.00pm, once I have used all the trains, plains and automobiles required to get me from the countryside to the city I work in. 
Therefore, I drive on a range of roads, B, A and motorways, covering over 150 miles to get to work and that is one way.  This suggestion will not work for rural communities.  If the country wants to eat, it needs to think of an alternative to 'tax per mile'.
If I were to follow the often misquotes Norman Tebbit (I did have to travel to find work), I might get to work on Wednesday, if on my bike.

The flip side would be why you travel 150 miles to work, can you not do anything remotely? You drive 150 miles by choice so have to pay the cost of the pollution

[Deleted User]

maxmycardagain said:

Well, EVs still wear the roads out and emit particles from tyres and brake pads ....

My £20/year RFL VW diesel only does 3000 miles a year, its Euro6, i get 700 miles on 1 tank of diesel which might be worth selling in a year...lol

EVs arent blameless when it comes to emissions - where does the leccy come from to charge them?...

Where does UK get its electricity from?

Primary oil (crude oil and Natural Gas Liquids) accounted for 42% of total production, natural gas 29%, primary electricity (consisting of nuclear, wind, solar and hydro) 16%, bioenergy and waste 12%, while coal accounted for the remaining 1%

Where does the electricity come to power the fuel pumps for your car to fill up? What about the pollution of transporting the fuel to the garage etc? EV also does not emit CO2 or NOx pollution while driving (particles are separate) unlike an ICE