UC and student council tax discount

Pen2780

I'm doing a one year degree course through my full time work and the student welfare team have said to apply for the student discount on council tax as although we are full time in employment its classed as a full time degree and so we are entitled.

Every little helps at the moment and so we can't afford to turn this down, but we also receive UC top ups as on a low income and I'm terrified that claiming the council tax reduction would class me as a full time student with UC and we'd lose entitlement that we can't survive without. 

Uni says to ring UC and check, sadly they were pretty incompetent when we switched from tax credits so I'm not confident in their advice. 

NedS

If you are a student, you must declare that to UC. You can put a note on your journal to inform them and they will then ask you for the information they need.

Are you entitled to receive or are you receiving any student funding, loans, grants etc? Any student funding you receive or are entitled to receive will be taken into account when calculating your entitlement to UC.

Pen2780

I didn't think I was a student as I work full time. 

It never crossed my mind that I could be classed as a student when I took up the opportunity through work as I still do my full time job, albeit with a few hours study time.  After start g the course we were told of perks like student discount cards and council tax discount. Although I dont qualify for the disabled grant that proper students do.

Having now briefly looked at the UC stance on studying I couldn't afford to continue with thee course if they do class me as a student and would rather withdraw than have to notify :-(   

tomtom256

Well you are either a full time student and qualify for a discount on your council tax, in which case, you would need to report that to UC or you aren't.

If you have a learning agreement what does that say?

poppy12345

Although you wouldn't qualify for the disabled grant but what about other student finance? If there's a loan available to you then it will be counted as income for UC purposes, regardless of whether you take that loan or not.

You're either a ful time student or you're not, if you are then you need to report the changes to UC. Do you have dependant children on your UC claim?

Pen2780

tomtom256 said:

Well you are either a full time student and qualify for a discount on your council tax, in which case, you would need to report that to UC or you aren't.

If you have a learning agreement what does that say?

Yes, that's what I thought... In which case I hope I'm not classed as a full time student!

There is a learning agreement with work rather than the Uni. It talks about having moved into a training role and there being 3 parts to successfully completing it and qualifying to apply for promotion. 1.  The Uni degree for which we get a day a week study time and need to do any additional study in our own time. 2. In house training and on the job VQ5 assessment for which we are supposed to get protected learning time. 3. Normal work starting at the level I was previously working at, then it sets out at what stages we can do more complex work.

I guess I always assumed it was classed as part time uni study and irrelevant to UC because of continuing to be employed full time and to do my normal work.

Then they started talking about this council tax discount with a letter to claim it which says I'm doing a full time degree course. I think they said it counts for council tax purposes because of the type of study and number of credits. If felt like they were saying it was a bit of a loophole that might change in future, but for now they'd checked with the council who had agreed we were all entitled and should claim.

Then I realised the implications on UC of potentially being classed as a full time student and am worried! 

Pen2780

poppy12345 said:

Although you wouldn't qualify for the disabled grant but what about other student finance? If there's a loan available to you then it will be counted as income for UC purposes, regardless of whether you take that loan or not.

You're either a ful time student or you're not, if you are then you need to report the changes to UC. Do you have dependant children on your UC claim?

I'm not sure if I could claim, I wouldn't want to get into debt though as even when qualified the pay is poor and I'm limited in the work I can do so would rather drop out and go back to my previous role. 

Yes, I have a dependant child and disabled partner - joint claim. 

Pen2780

I only know about not being eligible for the disability element because I had an assessment for extra support at the uni and they brought it up. I'd assumed that meant not eligible for student finance, but then I can't see anything online to say I'm not.... 

NedS

Pen2780 said:

tomtom256 said:

Well you are either a full time student and qualify for a discount on your council tax, in which case, you would need to report that to UC or you aren't.

If you have a learning agreement what does that say?

Yes, that's what I thought... In which case I hope I'm not classed as a full time student!

There is a learning agreement with work rather than the Uni. It talks about having moved into a training role and there being 3 parts to successfully completing it and qualifying to apply for promotion. 1.  The Uni degree for which we get a day a week study time and need to do any additional study in our own time. 2. In house training and on the job VQ5 assessment for which we are supposed to get protected learning time. 3. Normal work starting at the level I was previously working at, then it sets out at what stages we can do more complex work.

I guess I always assumed it was classed as part time uni study and irrelevant to UC because of continuing to be employed full time and to do my normal work.

Then they started talking about this council tax discount with a letter to claim it which says I'm doing a full time degree course. I think they said it counts for council tax purposes because of the type of study and number of credits. If felt like they were saying it was a bit of a loophole that might change in future, but for now they'd checked with the council who had agreed we were all entitled and should claim.

Then I realised the implications on UC of potentially being classed as a full time student and am worried! 

UC will classify you based on what the University classify the course as. Is the course classified as a part time or full time course by the University? You can normally get this information from the course information on the University website, and it should also be contained on any course registration documents. The number of hours or time spent per week is not relevant - just how the University classify the course.

Is it The Open University or do you attend at a local University?

Pen2780

NedS said:

Pen2780 said:

tomtom256 said:

Well you are either a full time student and qualify for a discount on your council tax, in which case, you would need to report that to UC or you aren't.

If you have a learning agreement what does that say?

Yes, that's what I thought... In which case I hope I'm not classed as a full time student!

There is a learning agreement with work rather than the Uni. It talks about having moved into a training role and there being 3 parts to successfully completing it and qualifying to apply for promotion. 1.  The Uni degree for which we get a day a week study time and need to do any additional study in our own time. 2. In house training and on the job VQ5 assessment for which we are supposed to get protected learning time. 3. Normal work starting at the level I was previously working at, then it sets out at what stages we can do more complex work.

I guess I always assumed it was classed as part time uni study and irrelevant to UC because of continuing to be employed full time and to do my normal work.

Then they started talking about this council tax discount with a letter to claim it which says I'm doing a full time degree course. I think they said it counts for council tax purposes because of the type of study and number of credits. If felt like they were saying it was a bit of a loophole that might change in future, but for now they'd checked with the council who had agreed we were all entitled and should claim.

Then I realised the implications on UC of potentially being classed as a full time student and am worried! 

UC will classify you based on what the University classify the course as. Is the course classified as a part time or full time course by the University? You can normally get this information from the course information on the University website, and it should also be contained on any course registration documents. The number of hours or time spent per week is not relevant - just how the University classify the course.

Is it The Open University or do you attend at a local University?

Its distance at the moment, but that seems to just be a change through covid. I think next year's cohort will be back to lectures face to face going in to the uni once a month. 

I can't find the course on the website, I guess as it's only done through employers, but similar ones are listed as "full time".

Clutching at straws before I withdraw, but is there any chance I could be classed as an apprentice or similar as its work based?  Thanks

NedS

Pen2780 said:

NedS said:

Pen2780 said:

tomtom256 said:

Well you are either a full time student and qualify for a discount on your council tax, in which case, you would need to report that to UC or you aren't.

If you have a learning agreement what does that say?

Yes, that's what I thought... In which case I hope I'm not classed as a full time student!

There is a learning agreement with work rather than the Uni. It talks about having moved into a training role and there being 3 parts to successfully completing it and qualifying to apply for promotion. 1.  The Uni degree for which we get a day a week study time and need to do any additional study in our own time. 2. In house training and on the job VQ5 assessment for which we are supposed to get protected learning time. 3. Normal work starting at the level I was previously working at, then it sets out at what stages we can do more complex work.

I guess I always assumed it was classed as part time uni study and irrelevant to UC because of continuing to be employed full time and to do my normal work.

Then they started talking about this council tax discount with a letter to claim it which says I'm doing a full time degree course. I think they said it counts for council tax purposes because of the type of study and number of credits. If felt like they were saying it was a bit of a loophole that might change in future, but for now they'd checked with the council who had agreed we were all entitled and should claim.

Then I realised the implications on UC of potentially being classed as a full time student and am worried! 

UC will classify you based on what the University classify the course as. Is the course classified as a part time or full time course by the University? You can normally get this information from the course information on the University website, and it should also be contained on any course registration documents. The number of hours or time spent per week is not relevant - just how the University classify the course.

Is it The Open University or do you attend at a local University?

Its distance at the moment, but that seems to just be a change through covid. I think next year's cohort will be back to lectures face to face going in to the uni once a month. 

I can't find the course on the website, I guess as it's only done through employers, but similar ones are listed as "full time".

Clutching at straws before I withdraw, but is there any chance I could be classed as an apprentice or similar as its work based?  Thanks

Quite possibly, as I wouldn't say this is at all clear cut.

The key issue here is student funding. Are you in receipt of any student funding / loans / grants? Are you eligible to apply for and receive any student funding / loans / grants that you have not applied for? UC are not going to pay you to be a student if you are receiving student finance for that very purpose.

There is no doubt that you would remain to be eligible to claim UC even if you are a full time student - you would remain to be eligible because you have a partner and a child. The only thing in question is whether there is student finance to take into account (either if you are receiving any, or if you were entitled but never applied), which may reduce the amount of UC you receive, but this is a complex area and you would need to declare this for UC for them to perform the calculations.

If you have no student finance, and were not entitled to apply for any, then there is no issue here other than you not mentioning it to UC.

Hope that helps easy your worries?