UC and student council tax discount

Pen2780

NedS said:

Pen2780 said:

NedS said:

Pen2780 said:

NedS said:

Pen2780 said:

tomtom256 said:

Well you are either a full time student and qualify for a discount on your council tax, in which case, you would need to report that to UC or you aren't.

If you have a learning agreement what does that say?

Yes, that's what I thought... In which case I hope I'm not classed as a full time student!

There is a learning agreement with work rather than the Uni. It talks about having moved into a training role and there being 3 parts to successfully completing it and qualifying to apply for promotion. 1.  The Uni degree for which we get a day a week study time and need to do any additional study in our own time. 2. In house training and on the job VQ5 assessment for which we are supposed to get protected learning time. 3. Normal work starting at the level I was previously working at, then it sets out at what stages we can do more complex work.

I guess I always assumed it was classed as part time uni study and irrelevant to UC because of continuing to be employed full time and to do my normal work.

Then they started talking about this council tax discount with a letter to claim it which says I'm doing a full time degree course. I think they said it counts for council tax purposes because of the type of study and number of credits. If felt like they were saying it was a bit of a loophole that might change in future, but for now they'd checked with the council who had agreed we were all entitled and should claim.

Then I realised the implications on UC of potentially being classed as a full time student and am worried! 

UC will classify you based on what the University classify the course as. Is the course classified as a part time or full time course by the University? You can normally get this information from the course information on the University website, and it should also be contained on any course registration documents. The number of hours or time spent per week is not relevant - just how the University classify the course.

Is it The Open University or do you attend at a local University?

Its distance at the moment, but that seems to just be a change through covid. I think next year's cohort will be back to lectures face to face going in to the uni once a month. 

I can't find the course on the website, I guess as it's only done through employers, but similar ones are listed as "full time".

Clutching at straws before I withdraw, but is there any chance I could be classed as an apprentice or similar as its work based?  Thanks

Quite possibly, as I wouldn't say this is at all clear cut.

The key issue here is student funding. Are you in receipt of any student funding / loans / grants? Are you eligible to apply for and receive any student funding / loans / grants that you have not applied for? UC are not going to pay you to be a student if you are receiving student finance for that very purpose.

There is no doubt that you would remain to be eligible to claim UC even if you are a full time student - you would remain to be eligible because you have a partner and a child. The only thing in question is whether there is student finance to take into account (either if you are receiving any, or if you were entitled but never applied), which may reduce the amount of UC you receive, but this is a complex area and you would need to declare this for UC for them to perform the calculations.

If you have no student finance, and were not entitled to apply for any, then there is no issue here other than you not mentioning it to UC.

Hope that helps easy your worries?

Thanks Ned. 

Is there any way to find out more about criteria for student loans and who counts as a FT student ?

From their site if I am classed as one I would get around £9k in maintenance grant.

Your University should be able to help advise you.

I will try again. 

I did ask before coming on here and they said they didn't have anyone who can advise on UC. 

I'll try rephrasing about student loan eligibility....

Thanks 

poppy12345

In your first comment you said that the student welfare team advised you to apply for student discount for Council tax. Surely they wouldn't have advised this unless you're a full time student. The discount isn't available for part time students.

MalMonroe

Pen2780 said:

I'm doing a one year degree course through my full time work and the student welfare team have said to apply for the student discount on council tax as although we are full time in employment its classed as a full time degree and so we are entitled.

Every little helps at the moment and so we can't afford to turn this down, but we also receive UC top ups as on a low income and I'm terrified that claiming the council tax reduction would class me as a full time student with UC and we'd lose entitlement that we can't survive without. 

Uni says to ring UC and check, sadly they were pretty incompetent when we switched from tax credits so I'm not confident in their advice. 

Hi, won't it all depend on exactly how much your employer is paying towards your study? And if your employer is paying for you to study, are you still eligible for the loans and fees that self-funding students can apply for?

Is it a Masters degree? Because I've not really heard of a one year undergraduate course. 

Your case is complicated because you are earning a salary and you have UC and you also have other family commitments and expenses.

It seems as if your employer has really complicated matters for you by encouraging your studies. Normally it's a really good thing but it's caused you more worry than anything else. And not only do you have to work full time but you also have to spend time studying. It's not easy, I did an undergraduate degree full time - without working - and it's very hard.

I do think that you need help from some benefits adviser, though and I agree with what the Uni says. You could have a chat with someone at UC and ask them to put in writing what they say to you, via email if necessary. 

It's a very strange situation and obviously you don't want to do anything wrong but the only people who can help do seem to be at the UC office, even if they have made errors in the past. That may not be the case now though. Just making enquiries won't hurt, I shouldn't have thought?

Alice_Holt

MalMonroe said:

Pen2780 said:

I'm doing a one year degree course through my full time work and the student welfare team have said to apply for the student discount on council tax as although we are full time in employment its classed as a full time degree and so we are entitled.

Every little helps at the moment and so we can't afford to turn this down, but we also receive UC top ups as on a low income and I'm terrified that claiming the council tax reduction would class me as a full time student with UC and we'd lose entitlement that we can't survive without. 

Uni says to ring UC and check, sadly they were pretty incompetent when we switched from tax credits so I'm not confident in their advice. 

I do think that you need help from some benefits adviser, though and I agree with what the Uni says. You could have a chat with someone at UC and ask them to put in writing what they say to you, via email if necessary. 

It's a very strange situation and obviously you don't want to do anything wrong but the only people who can help do seem to be at the UC office, even if they have made errors in the past. That may not be the case now though. Just making enquiries won't hurt, I shouldn't have thought?

        "someone at UC" will not be trained as a benefits adviser.

  OP - It's possible these people could help (as you have a disabled partner:
https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/how-we-can-help/helplines/disabled-students-helpline

macman

The rules are not complex: to get student exemption (i.e a disregard) from CT you need to be on a course of at least one year, and studying for at least 21 hours a week. Do you qualify on the second point or not? Though I'm puzzling as to how you can do 4 hours plus a day if in full time employment?
Who else lives with you, and what is their status? Adults, non-adults, students? If you live in a household with two or more adults, then it's not going to reduce the CT anyway. If one adult, then they will be able to claim the SPD if you are  full time student.
You go on to mention 'claiming council tax reduction', which muddies the waters, as that is a totally different thing. If you are a full time student, you do not get CT reduction, formerly known as CT discount, which is means test/benefitsrelated, but a student disregard .
I think your welfare people have completely misunderstood the two things, probably because they are used to dealing with CT as it relates to full time students, all of whom would qualify for a disregard.

poppy12345

MalMonroe said:

You could have a chat with someone at UC and ask them to put in writing what they say to you, via email if necessary. 

 the only people who can help do seem to be at the UC office

That's very poor advice you're continuing to give here, especially after being advised that this isn't great advice to give many times in the past. Ringing UC for such advice is not advised, they are not benefits advisors, they are call centre staff and this is the last place you should go to for such advice.

poppy12345

macman said:

Who else lives with you, and what is their status? Adults, non-adults, students?

In a previous comment from the OP they said..

Yes, I have a dependant child and disabled partner - joint claim. 

macman

poppy12345 said:

macman said:

Who else lives with you, and what is their status? Adults, non-adults, students?

In a previous comment from the OP they said..

Yes, I have a dependant child and disabled partner - joint claim. 

OK, so if partner does not qualify for Disabled Band Reduction or SMI disregard, and the OP is a full time student, then a 25% SPD should apply.
If partner is an SMI disregard, then no C Tax should apply, as both adults are disregarded.
If partner qualifies for DBR, then band reduction should apply, plus SPD of 25%.