MEP Southpark McDonalds/Starbucks carpark Standstead.

TheBoySmudger

"Ok, I didn't look at all the signs....no need because the NTK is non-POFA in terms of wording and the date served". 


  Do I need to detail why the wording isnt POFA compliant?  am I arguing NTK was recieved later than 14 days? are those the two failiings?   do i bother with anthing else? 

Coupon-mad

You do the whole POPLA appeal as normal, as seen on ALL Smart and Highview* POPLA threads. I did say that 'your FIRST point would be...'.


*another PPC who, like Smart, don't use the POFA.

But you will know that by now, because it takes a nano-second to search the forum for 'Highview POFA POPLA' or Smart POFA POPLA' and find literally dozens if not hundreds of results. Obviously look at those from the past year.

TheBoySmudger

Sorry to be a pain Coupom-mad but I only see first repsponses to the car park administrator ?

TheBoySmudger

TheBoySmudger said:

Sorry to be a pain Coupom-mad but I only see first repsponses to the car park administrator ?

I can cut an past some of that stuff and stick it in the POPLA apeal but I don't have a clue what most of it means.

TheBoySmudger

This apears to be a POPLA apeal but is incredibly lengthy and refers to stuff like night time lighting which is probably not relevant as they have pictures of the car being parked during the day. If the main points are applicable to the initial Notice (invoice) the second comunication rejecting ,apeal and incorectly stateing that I was the Driver and the final letter stateing that I have already completed the MET apeal process and ignoreing the fact that I had confirmed I was not the Driver and suggested not taking up POPLA preciose time. I will adapt and use this document if the main points are correct. Does anyone know if the apeal was succesfull? the  last Draft below was the last post on that thread?    

 Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Parking Charge Reference number XXXXX, Vehicle registration XXXXX, Appeal number XXXXXXX

I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and have received the above demand from Smart Parking. My appeal to Smart Parking was notified as rejected on the XXXXX and they gave me POPLA code XXXXX to quote for appeal to yourselves.

I am appealing as the registered keeper, the actual driver of the car has never been identified and this remains the burden of the parking operator.

The basis of my appeal is on the following grounds:

1) The signage on site was inadequate
2) Parking Charge Notice Non-Compliance With Section 4 p9(2)f of POFA
3) No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice.

I appreciate you taking the below into account during your objective considered assessment.

1) The signage on site was inadequate and not lit at night,
-The signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible at night from all parking spaces and there is insufficient notice of the sum of the parking charge itself.
- Signs are displayed at height, with a substantial amount of text written in inadequately small font which makes it difficult or impossible to read and understand from a vehicle outside of daylight hours.
-Further inspection revealed that only a small number of terms and conditions signage are displayed. This signage is located at an excessive height above where customers would normally park.
-The terms and conditions displayed do not state the parking charges let alone the sum payable for unauthorised parking. The BPS COP states:
“18.3 Specific parking-terms signage tells drivers what your terms and conditions are, including your parking charges. You must place signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site, so that drivers are given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle. Keep a record of where all the signs are. Signs must be conspicuous and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand. Signs showing your detailed terms and conditions must be at least 450mm x 450mm.
“In an ANPR controlled car park where no statement on the signs indicates that the parking period begins on entry to the car park, as opposed to when a vehicle parks, we may discount the amount of time between entry and parking when calculating the grace period at the end of the contract. This is because the average motorist would assume that a period of parking begins when they park the vehicle, and not when they enter the car park.”
In summary, this case by comparison, does not demonstrate an example of the 'large lettering' and 'prominent signage' consistently and clearly displayed throughout the car park that impressed the Supreme Court Judges and swayed them into deciding that in the specific car park in the Beavis case alone, a contract and agreement on the charge existed.
So, for this appeal, I put this operator to strict proof of where the car was parked and (from photos taken in the same lighting conditions) how their signs appeared on that date, at that time, from the angle of the driver's perspective. Equally, I require this operator to show how the entrance signs appear from a driver's seat, not stock examples of 'the sign' in isolation/close-up. I submit that full terms simply cannot be read from a car before parking and mere 'stock examples' of close-ups of the (alleged) signage terms will not be sufficient to disprove this.

2) Parking Charge Notice Non-Compliance With Section 4 p9(2)f of POFA
Smart Parking Ltd have failed to include or even allude paragraph 9(2)f Schedule 4 POFA as detailed below;
9(2)(f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—
(i) the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and
(ii) the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;
(g) Inform the keeper of any discount offered for prompt payment and the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that are available;
(h) Identify the creditor and specify how and to whom payment or notification to the creditor may be made;
(i) specify the date on which the notice is sent (where it is sent by post) or given (in any other case).

3. No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice
Smart Parking has no title in this land and no BPA compliant landowner contract assigning rights to charge and enforce in the courts in their own right. BPA COP paragraphs 7.1 and 7.2 dictate some of the required contract wording. I put Smart Parking to strict proof of the contract terms with the actual landowner (not a lessee or agent). Smart Parking have no legal status to enforce this charge because there is no assignment of rights to pursue PCNs in the courts in their own name nor standing to form contracts with drivers themselves. They do not own this car park and appear (at best) to have a bare licence to put signs up and ‘ticket’ vehicles on site, merely acting as agents. No evidence has been supplied lawfully showing that Smart Parking are entitled to pursue these charges in their own right.

I require Smart Parking to provide a full copy of the contemporaneous, signed and dated, unredacted contract with the landowner. I say that any contract is not compliant with the requirements set out in the BPA Code of Practice and does not allow them to charge and issue proceedings for this sum for this alleged contravention in this car park. In order to refute this, it will not be sufficient for Smart Parking merely to supply a site agreement or witness statement, as these do not show sufficient detail (such as the restrictions, charges and revenue sharing arrangements agreed with a landowner) and may well be signed by a non-landholder such as another agent. In order to comply with paragraph 7 of the BPA Code of Practice, a non-landowner private parking company must have a specifically-worded contract with the landowner, not merely an ‘agreement’ with a non-landholder managing agent – otherwise there is no authority.

Paragraph 7 of the BPA CoP defines the mandatory requirements and I put this operator to strict proof of full compliance:
“7.2 If the operator wishes to take legal action on any outstanding parking charges, they must ensure that they have the written authority of the landowner (or their appointed agent) prior to legal action being taken.
7.3 The written authorisation must also set out:
a, the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined.
b, any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation
c, any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and enforcement
d, who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs
e, the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement”


Yours faithfully

Coupon-mad

Looks fine, perfectly normal by this forum's standards - and that's not long!  Haven't you seen the example POPLA appeals linked in the NEWBIES thread third post yet? Mega long, with pictures!

Obviously, you just need to put in your own photos and change any irrelevant sentences such as stuff about darkness (if it wasn't dark in your case).

And you re-order the points as I already stated twice on this thread what your point 1 will be.

TheBoySmudger

Coupon-mad said:

Looks fine, perfectly normal by this forum's standards - and that's not long!  Haven't you seen the example POPLA appeals linked in the NEWBIES thread third post yet? Mega long, with pictures!

Obviously, you just need to put in your own photos and change any irrelevant sentences such as stuff about darkness (if it wasn't dark in your case).

And you re-order the points as I already stated twice on this thread what your point 1 will be.

great - thanks Could you please list the 'points' in the correct order. I have only seen a suggestio as to what Point 1 should be? I only want the POPLA apeal to contain relevant fact.. I don't live anyware near Standsted  do I need to drive there and take photos' or has somebody alreadt done that recently and shared somewhere? With specifics to the MET Standsted  Macdonals and Southgate Park car parks  which from where I'm sitting seem to be one car park with confusing sign posts and walkways designed to have people cross some imaginary boundary under the false illusion that is it ok to park for free for 60 mins anywere. Thanks for all the help.    

Coupon-mad

No need for us to list points in any order.

You simply do it, using the NEWBIES thread 3rd post that already gives you the template POPLA Appeal points.

Please show us your draft if you need it checked.

1505grandad

You also adapt the example to refer to YOUR ppc  -  is it MET? -  not Smart Parking

TheBoySmudger

1505grandad said:

You also adapt the example to refer to YOUR ppc  -  is it MET? -  not Smart Parking

of course yes thanks as long as all the other stuff is correct - i dont have weeks to re research everything that is written to see if it is relevant - that is my concern.