Smart Meters : E-On sneaky new “end of meter life” tactic

[Deleted User]

Astria said:

Deleted_User said:

The smart meters will come to end of life before a lot of our standard meters. When 5G rolls out many of them will need to be replaced.

S1 meters are being replaced anyway, 5G is already here and they still work and will do until 2033. 4g/5g Smart meters already exist, and S2 meters will be unaffected by the 2G/3G shutdown because they don't use it. Chances are all S1 meters will be replaced well before 2033.

You can still object to a smart meter installation if you current meter is within it's certification lifetime, but we already know that objecting will cost you significant cost in the future as "anytime" tariffs will be the most expensive.

And that's part of the reason why energy is costing so much! Billions of pounds to roll out these meters - it's like painting the fourth road bridge - the first batch are needing replaced and still a huge proportion of the population are on traditional meters. 

You're making our country sound like Communist China!!! LOL "Conform or freeze"!! I suspect what will happen is they'll push hard to coerce everyone onto smart meters - they'll fail and a gap in the market will appear. 

brewerdave

Astria said:

Deleted_User said:

The smart meters will come to end of life before a lot of our standard meters. When 5G rolls out many of them will need to be replaced.

S1 meters are being replaced anyway, 5G is already here and they still work and will do until 2033. 4g/5g Smart meters already exist, and S2 meters will be unaffected by the 2G/3G shutdown because they don't use it. Chances are all S1 meters will be replaced well before 2033.

You can still object to a smart meter installation if you current meter is within it's certification lifetime, but we already know that objecting will cost you significant cost in the future as "anytime" tariffs will be the most expensive.

Currently SMETS2 meters use 2G/3G as far as I'm aware ??
In terms of replacement of SMETS1 meters - if my experience with BG is anything to go by, there is still a shortage of SMETS2 meters for "virgin" installs - possibly getting my install this Friday - 3rd time lucky (maybe?)

[Deleted User]

S2 meters will be unaffected by the 2G/3G shutdown because they don't use it. 

Sadly, not true. 

‘The government and UK mobile network operators have agreed to phase out 2G and 3G mobile networks by 2033 in order to free up bandwidth for 5G and future 6G services. This includes Telefónica (O2) who provide the Smart Meter communications for the Central and Southern regions of the UK.

This change will require the replacement of communications hubs on the Smart Electricity Meters in the Central and Southern regions of the UK. To this end the DCC plan to have 4G single band Communications Hubs available in 2023, with dual band to follow in Q2 2024.’

Read more at: https://www.smartme.co.uk/roll-out.html © SmartMe.co.uk

Astria

brewerdave said:

Astria said:

Deleted_User said:

The smart meters will come to end of life before a lot of our standard meters. When 5G rolls out many of them will need to be replaced.

S1 meters are being replaced anyway, 5G is already here and they still work and will do until 2033. 4g/5g Smart meters already exist, and S2 meters will be unaffected by the 2G/3G shutdown because they don't use it. Chances are all S1 meters will be replaced well before 2033.

You can still object to a smart meter installation if you current meter is within it's certification lifetime, but we already know that objecting will cost you significant cost in the future as "anytime" tariffs will be the most expensive.

Currently SMETS2 meters use 2G/3G as far as I'm aware ??

Scotland and the North use long range radio.

Other smart meters may use a local mesh network (other smart meters) to communicate,

O2 also have some small dedicated aerials to support smart meters which then act as another type of local mesh (this was done to improve saturation)

Some meters still run on the 2G network, or a network similar to 2G, but these are very small.

Therefore it's not necessary to replace every smart meter to move onto another network type such as 5G.

[Deleted User]

Astria said:

brewerdave said:

Astria said:

Deleted_User said:

The smart meters will come to end of life before a lot of our standard meters. When 5G rolls out many of them will need to be replaced.

S1 meters are being replaced anyway, 5G is already here and they still work and will do until 2033. 4g/5g Smart meters already exist, and S2 meters will be unaffected by the 2G/3G shutdown because they don't use it. Chances are all S1 meters will be replaced well before 2033.

You can still object to a smart meter installation if you current meter is within it's certification lifetime, but we already know that objecting will cost you significant cost in the future as "anytime" tariffs will be the most expensive.

Currently SMETS2 meters use 2G/3G as far as I'm aware ??

Scotland and the North use long range radio.

Other smart meters may use a local mesh network (other smart meters) to communicate,

O2 also have some small dedicated aerials to support smart meters which then act as another type of local mesh (this was done to improve saturation)

Some meters still run on the 2G network, or a network similar to 2G, but these are very small.

Therefore it's not necessary to replace every smart meter to move onto another network type such as 5G.

I think the thing that we can conclude from the situation is that there are LOADS of people that want smart meters that can't get them yet. There are also people with smart meters (that genuinely want them) that don't work. Then there's all those people that have them, want to keep them but will need them replaced due to them not being up to spec.

There's a long, long time to go before the energy companies are twiddling their thumbs looking for new places to install smart meters. Why would they harass those that don't want them (going as far as to take legal action to force meters on them) when they're not keeping up with demand from those that want them?

deano2099

Deleted_User said:

When they want to entice people onto smart meters they will control your usage patterns by offering discounts.

Once most people are on smart meters there is no need to offer cheap energy at off-peak hours. They can simply quadruple the price of energy during peak hours. 

Those that are trusting of massive profit making corporations will no doubt flock to get smart meters. But plenty of people will see the potential drawbacks and decide that a few short-lived perks don't make the switch more acceptable to them. 

It's a numbers game. If 99% of the population go for it they could PERHAPS get away with making energy too expensive for those without smart meters. Normally I'd say this would never happen, but I have to concede we've seen some shocking things in recent years. But if enough people refuse to have smart meters they'll need to come up with a plan that people find acceptable. 

That's what free markets are all about - plenty of competition so that everyone can be catered for.

Y'know, I'm in agreement on your general point, and the ability go off grid, but man, we've reached very different conclusions from the same starting point. Essentially, I think when we get to this point, those without smart meters will be worse off than those with them. Of course they will be. Like you say, over the shorter term there will be incentives, so in that short term those with meters will benefit (which if, as in this thread, we're talking about an elderly person, is significant) - but I just don't see these sunlit uplands on the other side where those without smart meters suddenly get all you can eat free electricity. Instead I expect there will be a deadline in place past where everyone is offered a smart meter, and if you don't have one, then you won't be getting power. Or you'll only get it in certain hours, or at a very high rate. 
What I do have faith in, if stuff gets really bad and exploitative, is for smart people to work out how to hack these smart meters, given many will be 10+ years old, and tech moves on fast. I feel it's far more likely someone will figure out how to timeshift figures on the smart meter reporting than it is that they just give up and let everyone without smart meters have cheap energy.

As for the point that you have the right to refuse a smart meter in your home. Yes, you absolutely do. Just as you have the right to refuse *any* meter in your home. There is no legal requirement or entitlement for an energy company to have their meter in your home. It's only if you want power that it's required.
What you're not entitled to is to insist on a certain sort of meter. You can't choose to have a smart meter or not in the same way in the days of dumb meters you couldn't insist on a certain brand of meter. These are just the next generation of meters, they're the same thing, they're just newer and work in a different way.

Where I think you might be right, is that eventually, if there are enough hold outs, someone will come along, buy up all the old dumb meters, re-certify them, and set up an energy company that will fit a dumb meter and sell you energy. But that company will be set up with the express purpose of exploiting those who fear smart meter tech, it'll charge huge set-up fees for installing 20+ year old reconditioned meters, and charge over the odds for every unit those people use. Safe in the knowledge that there was enough scaremongering about smart meters that some people will be scared enough to pay.