Smart Meters : E-On sneaky new “end of meter life” tactic

[Deleted User]

double_dutchy said:

Deleted_User said:

I don't know what Miser1964 means, but common sense should tell you that due to net zero goals and shortcomings of renewable energy there isn't enough to go around. 

No one knows for sure HOW energy will be rationed - but it obviously will be.

Smart meters will help central controllers decide who gets the luxury of energy and who doesn't. I personally don't feel comfortable about willingly giving them that control - because something tells me that I won't be getting a fair share.

This is pure conjecture, where's your evidence?

What do you want evidence for?

- Net zero goals?
- shortcomings of renewable energy?

The above I can provide evidence for if you need it, but I suspect you know it's true.

If you accept that reliance on energy will need to be reduced moving forwards then how do you think they'll do it without rationing of some form? Be that on price or plain old quotas? No one can prove how they'll do it, but surely you accept that it must happen (unless they crack fusion overnight and manage to roll it out in the next few years).

Do you need evidence that smart meters can and will be used to centrally control the rationing of energy? They make no secret of it - it's the stated aim.

Pretty much any assumptions about the future are conjecture. No one has evidence. But I think all that I've stated here is objective fact?

mmmmikey

Good grief! Another one for the ignore list

doodling

Hi,

Deleted_User said:

double_dutchy said:

Deleted_User said:

I don't know what Miser1964 means, but common sense should tell you that due to net zero goals and shortcomings of renewable energy there isn't enough to go around. 

No one knows for sure HOW energy will be rationed - but it obviously will be.

Smart meters will help central controllers decide who gets the luxury of energy and who doesn't. I personally don't feel comfortable about willingly giving them that control - because something tells me that I won't be getting a fair share.

This is pure conjecture, where's your evidence?

What do you want evidence for?

- Net zero goals?
- shortcomings of renewable energy?

The above I can provide evidence for if you need it, but I suspect you know it's true.

Both exist at a high level but have not been coherently translated into a strategy for electricity supply so who knows what will happen?

If you accept that reliance on energy will need to be reduced moving forwards then how do you think they'll do it without rationing of some form?

I don't accept the idea that rationning is likely and doubt that the general public will either.

Be that on price or plain old quotas? No one can prove how they'll do it, but surely you accept that it must happen (unless they crack fusion overnight and manage to roll it out in the next few years).

I don't accept that it will happen. I do agree that the supply situation in the UK is currently a little tricky but I suspect the answer to that will be some more gas fired power stations, at least in the short term.  An inability to supply the population with power is career ending for politicians and they know that.

Do you need evidence that smart meters can and will be used to centrally control the rationing of energy? They make no secret of it - it's the stated aim.

Of course they can, but there is no evidence they will.

Pretty much any assumptions about the future are conjecture. No one has evidence. But I think all that I've stated here is objective fact?

The majority of what you state is conjecture - your definition of the word fact seems to be somewhat different to mine.

doodling

Hi,

Deleted_User said:

doodling said:

Hi,

Deleted_User said:

giraffe69 said:

Court orders, going off grid!! The amount of hysteria about the fitting of smart maters from some is quite extraordinary. Having a hissy fit because someone wants to change a meter seems excessive. The point where all or nearly all have such a meter can no doubt be a bit delayed by refuseniks but in the end the going off grid method is not very likely to appeal to very many. FWIW I have had such a meter for a couple of years now without problem (once connection was established) despite some on here telling me I'd have my brain fried by radiation or the suppliers would cut me off or my bills would get higher(of course they have but not for that reason).

You seem to be getting a bit hot under the collar over the fact that people make different choices to you?

I wouldn't call it a hissy fit for people to say 'no' to a smart meter. If others want to take a 'hissy fit' and try and force it on people with court orders then let them. Those that don't want it just need to stand their ground and refuse to cave into the pressure. If it comes to court orders then there will be enough people to band together to fight it. So no need for hissy fits and hysteria. Just say no!! LOL

As for going off-grid - a lot of people would LOVE to do that. Currently it's made difficult by the costs involved in getting energy meters removed from your property. Until you do that you're stuck with a standing charge even if you don't use any energy. 

How does any of this help an elderly and confused lady?  She isn't going to be going off grid and there is absolutely no benefit in her fighting the energy company on this.  No-one is going to "band together" with an old lady to fight a court order - she'll just have a lot of stress whilst the process grinds on.

The reality is that the energy supplier can fit a smart meter if they want to (and Ofgem agree).

Unless the elderly and confused lady is bored and wants to make a big issue of this, which will lead to lots of unnecessary stress and is almost certainly not in her interest then the best advice is to encourage her to agree to it.

If you read my posts before responding you won't need to ask that question.

As I explained - SHE doesn't need to fight the energy company. Other people with more at stake will do that. She just has to sit tight and say no to a smart meter if she doesn't want it. 

If the energy company want to pick a fight and obtain a court order to force a smart meter on an elderly and confused lady - then they can do so. But she doesn't need to worry. At the point where the energy company have that legal document she can decide what she wants to do. I think it very unlikely it'll ever get to that point. The energy company will pick on plenty of people before they get to her - people that ARE in a strong position to take on the legal challenge. 

I'm sorry but that's breathtakingly naive.

The energy supplier doesn't have a list of premises where they want to fit smart meters sorted by difficultly, with the ability of customers to push themselves down that list depending on how intransigent they are being.

They will have a requirement, driven by law and regulation to ensure that they have a suitable calibrated meter at the customers premises and they will follow a process to ensure that happens.  That process won't be affected by the actions of other customers.

Your suggestion that once the OPs contact has a warrent in her hand she can decide what to do is absurd - if she has the warrant in her hand, the odds are there will be someone at her property fitting the meter as she reads it.  If she decides to object at that point it will become a police matter.

[Deleted User]

doodling said:

Hi,

Deleted_User said:

double_dutchy said:

Deleted_User said:

I don't know what Miser1964 means, but common sense should tell you that due to net zero goals and shortcomings of renewable energy there isn't enough to go around. 

No one knows for sure HOW energy will be rationed - but it obviously will be.

Smart meters will help central controllers decide who gets the luxury of energy and who doesn't. I personally don't feel comfortable about willingly giving them that control - because something tells me that I won't be getting a fair share.

This is pure conjecture, where's your evidence?

What do you want evidence for?

- Net zero goals?
- shortcomings of renewable energy?

The above I can provide evidence for if you need it, but I suspect you know it's true.

Both exist at a high level but have not been coherently translated into a strategy for electricity supply so who knows what will happen?

If you accept that reliance on energy will need to be reduced moving forwards then how do you think they'll do it without rationing of some form?

I don't accept the idea that rationning is likely and doubt that the general public will either.

Be that on price or plain old quotas? No one can prove how they'll do it, but surely you accept that it must happen (unless they crack fusion overnight and manage to roll it out in the next few years).

I don't accept that it will happen. I do agree that the supply situation in the UK is currently a little tricky but I suspect the answer to that will be some more gas fired power stations, at least in the short term.  An inability to supply the population with power is career ending for politicians and they know that.

Do you need evidence that smart meters can and will be used to centrally control the rationing of energy? They make no secret of it - it's the stated aim.

Of course they can, but there is no evidence they will.

Pretty much any assumptions about the future are conjecture. No one has evidence. But I think all that I've stated here is objective fact?

The majority of what you state is conjecture - your definition of the word fact seems to be somewhat different to mine.

I agree that we don't know the strategy for energy supply - but we DO know that there isn't enough energy to go around moving forwards. 

If you don't accept that rationing is likely how do you think they'll reduce usage of energy? Miser1964 thinks they'll turn it into a heavily taxed luxury - you seemed to disagree with that. So what other options do you think are available? And do you have confidence that whatever they do will work in your favour? That they'll have YOUR best interests at heart?

If you think the energy shortage is short term then for most people smart meters will soon be redundant. The only real benefit that I've heard is that they'll allow energy companies to control when people are using energy to mitigate the shortcomings of renewable energy. That is a form of rationing - using pricing to ensure that only the wealthy can afford to use energy at peak times. They're already advertising the tariffs. 

And if the energy shortages are short term the energy companies and government would be aware of this - so why are they so keen to push and expensive rollout of smart meters? If it's not about controlling who can use energy at peak times what is the point in them? I mean if someone wants one because they can't be bothered reading their meter themselves then I can see why they might want them. But why are government and energy companies so keen to foist them on everyone?

SAC2334

doodling said:

Hi,

Deleted_User said:

doodling said:

Hi,

Deleted_User said:

giraffe69 said:

Court orders, going off grid!! The amount of hysteria about the fitting of smart maters from some is quite extraordinary. Having a hissy fit because someone wants to change a meter seems excessive. The point where all or nearly all have such a meter can no doubt be a bit delayed by refuseniks but in the end the going off grid method is not very likely to appeal to very many. FWIW I have had such a meter for a couple of years now without problem (once connection was established) despite some on here telling me I'd have my brain fried by radiation or the suppliers would cut me off or my bills would get higher(of course they have but not for that reason).

You seem to be getting a bit hot under the collar over the fact that people make different choices to you?

I wouldn't call it a hissy fit for people to say 'no' to a smart meter. If others want to take a 'hissy fit' and try and force it on people with court orders then let them. Those that don't want it just need to stand their ground and refuse to cave into the pressure. If it comes to court orders then there will be enough people to band together to fight it. So no need for hissy fits and hysteria. Just say no!! LOL

As for going off-grid - a lot of people would LOVE to do that. Currently it's made difficult by the costs involved in getting energy meters removed from your property. Until you do that you're stuck with a standing charge even if you don't use any energy. 

How does any of this help an elderly and confused lady?  She isn't going to be going off grid and there is absolutely no benefit in her fighting the energy company on this.  No-one is going to "band together" with an old lady to fight a court order - she'll just have a lot of stress whilst the process grinds on.

The reality is that the energy supplier can fit a smart meter if they want to (and Ofgem agree).

Unless the elderly and confused lady is bored and wants to make a big issue of this, which will lead to lots of unnecessary stress and is almost certainly not in her interest then the best advice is to encourage her to agree to it.

If you read my posts before responding you won't need to ask that question.

As I explained - SHE doesn't need to fight the energy company. Other people with more at stake will do that. She just has to sit tight and say no to a smart meter if she doesn't want it. 

If the energy company want to pick a fight and obtain a court order to force a smart meter on an elderly and confused lady - then they can do so. But she doesn't need to worry. At the point where the energy company have that legal document she can decide what she wants to do. I think it very unlikely it'll ever get to that point. The energy company will pick on plenty of people before they get to her - people that ARE in a strong position to take on the legal challenge. 

I'm sorry but that's breathtakingly naive.

The energy supplier doesn't have a list of premises where they want to fit smart meters sorted by difficultly, with the ability of customers to push themselves down that list depending on how intransigent they are being.

They will have a requirement, driven by law and regulation to ensure that they have a suitable calibrated meter at the customers premises and they will follow a process to ensure that happens.  That process won't be affected by the actions of other customers.

Your suggestion that once the OPs contact has a warrent in her hand she can decide what to do is absurd - if she has the warrant in her hand, the odds are there will be someone at her property fitting the meter as she reads it.  If she decides to object at that point it will become a police matter.

Plus she will be paying for the cost of the court warrant. It was £150 when I was on the job .

Warrant costs are added to the smart meter which will be fitted in prepayment meter mode. Suppliers add the debt  to the meter to be paid back at a weekly amount .
Suppliers have to  go through this sort of thing often force fitting meters and will have no problem asking for Police back up in the event of obstruction. If they need a locksmith to enter that too is added to the smart meter .

[Deleted User]

SAC2334 said:

Lousy advice from scarter going on about waiting for a supplier to get a court orders .The court order of approx.  £150 is charged to the occupier who is illegally refusing access to their property so I wish he/she would stop saying it as the OP may believe it .

But the occupier ISN'T illegally refusing access to their property. The fact that they can't change it without her permission (without a court order) should put her mind at rest that they can't break into her house when she's out!! 

From the Citizen Advice website:

"You don’t have to accept a smart meter if you don’t want one. If your supplier tells you that you must have one installed, contact the Citizens Advice consumer helpline."

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/your-energy-meter/getting-a-smart-meter-installed/

From Which?

"Be aware that if your energy company has contacted you to change your energy meter to a smart meter because your current meter needs replacing (ie it's too old), then speak to your provider directly to understand more about why your meter needs to be changed. If your provider claims there is a safety risk involved, you can ask them to provide evidence for this. "

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/do-i-have-to-accept-a-smart-meter-aLLKl9O63dbM

With all that info in the public domain assuring people that they do not need to accept a smart meter do your really think a court will issue an order to allow an energy company to enter the home of an old lady? People on here are fear mongering in order to frighten an old lady into doing something she doesn't want to do and doesn't have to do. 

[Deleted User]

doodling said:

Hi,

Deleted_User said:

doodling said:

Hi,

Deleted_User said:

giraffe69 said:

Court orders, going off grid!! The amount of hysteria about the fitting of smart maters from some is quite extraordinary. Having a hissy fit because someone wants to change a meter seems excessive. The point where all or nearly all have such a meter can no doubt be a bit delayed by refuseniks but in the end the going off grid method is not very likely to appeal to very many. FWIW I have had such a meter for a couple of years now without problem (once connection was established) despite some on here telling me I'd have my brain fried by radiation or the suppliers would cut me off or my bills would get higher(of course they have but not for that reason).

You seem to be getting a bit hot under the collar over the fact that people make different choices to you?

I wouldn't call it a hissy fit for people to say 'no' to a smart meter. If others want to take a 'hissy fit' and try and force it on people with court orders then let them. Those that don't want it just need to stand their ground and refuse to cave into the pressure. If it comes to court orders then there will be enough people to band together to fight it. So no need for hissy fits and hysteria. Just say no!! LOL

As for going off-grid - a lot of people would LOVE to do that. Currently it's made difficult by the costs involved in getting energy meters removed from your property. Until you do that you're stuck with a standing charge even if you don't use any energy. 

How does any of this help an elderly and confused lady?  She isn't going to be going off grid and there is absolutely no benefit in her fighting the energy company on this.  No-one is going to "band together" with an old lady to fight a court order - she'll just have a lot of stress whilst the process grinds on.

The reality is that the energy supplier can fit a smart meter if they want to (and Ofgem agree).

Unless the elderly and confused lady is bored and wants to make a big issue of this, which will lead to lots of unnecessary stress and is almost certainly not in her interest then the best advice is to encourage her to agree to it.

If you read my posts before responding you won't need to ask that question.

As I explained - SHE doesn't need to fight the energy company. Other people with more at stake will do that. She just has to sit tight and say no to a smart meter if she doesn't want it. 

If the energy company want to pick a fight and obtain a court order to force a smart meter on an elderly and confused lady - then they can do so. But she doesn't need to worry. At the point where the energy company have that legal document she can decide what she wants to do. I think it very unlikely it'll ever get to that point. The energy company will pick on plenty of people before they get to her - people that ARE in a strong position to take on the legal challenge. 

I'm sorry but that's breathtakingly naive.

The energy supplier doesn't have a list of premises where they want to fit smart meters sorted by difficultly, with the ability of customers to push themselves down that list depending on how intransigent they are being.

They will have a requirement, driven by law and regulation to ensure that they have a suitable calibrated meter at the customers premises and they will follow a process to ensure that happens.  That process won't be affected by the actions of other customers.

Your suggestion that once the OPs contact has a warrent in her hand she can decide what to do is absurd - if she has the warrant in her hand, the odds are there will be someone at her property fitting the meter as she reads it.  If she decides to object at that point it will become a police matter.

The energy company WON'T get a court order. That's my point. People are fear-mongering. In my post above I've posted advice from Citizen Advice and from Which? - you do NOT need to accept a smart meter. If your energy company tries to force you Citizens Advice say contact them. Which say if they try to tell you your meter needs replacing ask them to tell you why - and if they say it's dangerous demand proof.

No court will issue and order because the information in the public domain is clear - people can refuse a smart meter.

The lady is afraid they'll replace it without her permission. They won't. The fact that they'd need a court order to do that should put her mind at rest that it won't happen without her prior knowledge. No court will give that order as things stand right now. If the situation changes and your right to refuse is withdrawn there are plenty of young, capable people that will take on that legal battle.

The old lady can relax. No one is going to change her meter against her wishes. 

SAC2334

Deleted_User said:

doodling said:

Hi,

Deleted_User said:

doodling said:

Hi,

Deleted_User said:

giraffe69 said:

Court orders, going off grid!! The amount of hysteria about the fitting of smart maters from some is quite extraordinary. Having a hissy fit because someone wants to change a meter seems excessive. The point where all or nearly all have such a meter can no doubt be a bit delayed by refuseniks but in the end the going off grid method is not very likely to appeal to very many. FWIW I have had such a meter for a couple of years now without problem (once connection was established) despite some on here telling me I'd have my brain fried by radiation or the suppliers would cut me off or my bills would get higher(of course they have but not for that reason).

You seem to be getting a bit hot under the collar over the fact that people make different choices to you?

I wouldn't call it a hissy fit for people to say 'no' to a smart meter. If others want to take a 'hissy fit' and try and force it on people with court orders then let them. Those that don't want it just need to stand their ground and refuse to cave into the pressure. If it comes to court orders then there will be enough people to band together to fight it. So no need for hissy fits and hysteria. Just say no!! LOL

As for going off-grid - a lot of people would LOVE to do that. Currently it's made difficult by the costs involved in getting energy meters removed from your property. Until you do that you're stuck with a standing charge even if you don't use any energy. 

How does any of this help an elderly and confused lady?  She isn't going to be going off grid and there is absolutely no benefit in her fighting the energy company on this.  No-one is going to "band together" with an old lady to fight a court order - she'll just have a lot of stress whilst the process grinds on.

The reality is that the energy supplier can fit a smart meter if they want to (and Ofgem agree).

Unless the elderly and confused lady is bored and wants to make a big issue of this, which will lead to lots of unnecessary stress and is almost certainly not in her interest then the best advice is to encourage her to agree to it.

If you read my posts before responding you won't need to ask that question.

As I explained - SHE doesn't need to fight the energy company. Other people with more at stake will do that. She just has to sit tight and say no to a smart meter if she doesn't want it. 

If the energy company want to pick a fight and obtain a court order to force a smart meter on an elderly and confused lady - then they can do so. But she doesn't need to worry. At the point where the energy company have that legal document she can decide what she wants to do. I think it very unlikely it'll ever get to that point. The energy company will pick on plenty of people before they get to her - people that ARE in a strong position to take on the legal challenge. 

I'm sorry but that's breathtakingly naive.

The energy supplier doesn't have a list of premises where they want to fit smart meters sorted by difficultly, with the ability of customers to push themselves down that list depending on how intransigent they are being.

They will have a requirement, driven by law and regulation to ensure that they have a suitable calibrated meter at the customers premises and they will follow a process to ensure that happens.  That process won't be affected by the actions of other customers.

Your suggestion that once the OPs contact has a warrent in her hand she can decide what to do is absurd - if she has the warrant in her hand, the odds are there will be someone at her property fitting the meter as she reads it.  If she decides to object at that point it will become a police matter.

The energy company WON'T get a court order. That's my point. People are fear-mongering. In my post above I've posted advice from Citizen Advice and from Which? - you do NOT need to accept a smart meter. If your energy company tries to force you Citizens Advice say contact them. Which say if they try to tell you your meter needs replacing ask them to tell you why - and if they say it's dangerous demand proof.

No court will issue and order because the information in the public domain is clear - people can refuse a smart meter.

The lady is afraid they'll replace it without her permission. They won't. The fact that they'd need a court order to do that should put her mind at rest that it won't happen without her prior knowledge. No court will give that order as things stand right now. If the situation changes and your right to refuse is withdrawn there are plenty of young, capable people that will take on that legal battle.

The old lady can relax. No one is going to change her meter against her wishes. 

Citizens Advice don t say that  you don t have to accept a smart meter .Read it carefully and they say you "might have to accept one if the supplier does not have a none smart meter in stock " 

I know they are on sale and are easily available but if the supplier "does not have one in stock " then that angle is covered .
Citizens advice also say they may be able to fit a smart meter without the smart meter communications actually working .

Personally I will agree with you that Eon won t be taking out any warrants of access.. I could nt get them to come out to fiddled meters which were incredibly dangerous. They had a more or less absent Revenue Protection Unit who would never answer phone calls or emails when i found Eon meters bypassed 

. 

[Deleted User]

SAC2334 said:

doodling said:

Hi,

Deleted_User said:

doodling said:

Hi,

Deleted_User said:

giraffe69 said:

Court orders, going off grid!! The amount of hysteria about the fitting of smart maters from some is quite extraordinary. Having a hissy fit because someone wants to change a meter seems excessive. The point where all or nearly all have such a meter can no doubt be a bit delayed by refuseniks but in the end the going off grid method is not very likely to appeal to very many. FWIW I have had such a meter for a couple of years now without problem (once connection was established) despite some on here telling me I'd have my brain fried by radiation or the suppliers would cut me off or my bills would get higher(of course they have but not for that reason).

You seem to be getting a bit hot under the collar over the fact that people make different choices to you?

I wouldn't call it a hissy fit for people to say 'no' to a smart meter. If others want to take a 'hissy fit' and try and force it on people with court orders then let them. Those that don't want it just need to stand their ground and refuse to cave into the pressure. If it comes to court orders then there will be enough people to band together to fight it. So no need for hissy fits and hysteria. Just say no!! LOL

As for going off-grid - a lot of people would LOVE to do that. Currently it's made difficult by the costs involved in getting energy meters removed from your property. Until you do that you're stuck with a standing charge even if you don't use any energy. 

How does any of this help an elderly and confused lady?  She isn't going to be going off grid and there is absolutely no benefit in her fighting the energy company on this.  No-one is going to "band together" with an old lady to fight a court order - she'll just have a lot of stress whilst the process grinds on.

The reality is that the energy supplier can fit a smart meter if they want to (and Ofgem agree).

Unless the elderly and confused lady is bored and wants to make a big issue of this, which will lead to lots of unnecessary stress and is almost certainly not in her interest then the best advice is to encourage her to agree to it.

If you read my posts before responding you won't need to ask that question.

As I explained - SHE doesn't need to fight the energy company. Other people with more at stake will do that. She just has to sit tight and say no to a smart meter if she doesn't want it. 

If the energy company want to pick a fight and obtain a court order to force a smart meter on an elderly and confused lady - then they can do so. But she doesn't need to worry. At the point where the energy company have that legal document she can decide what she wants to do. I think it very unlikely it'll ever get to that point. The energy company will pick on plenty of people before they get to her - people that ARE in a strong position to take on the legal challenge. 

I'm sorry but that's breathtakingly naive.

The energy supplier doesn't have a list of premises where they want to fit smart meters sorted by difficultly, with the ability of customers to push themselves down that list depending on how intransigent they are being.

They will have a requirement, driven by law and regulation to ensure that they have a suitable calibrated meter at the customers premises and they will follow a process to ensure that happens.  That process won't be affected by the actions of other customers.

Your suggestion that once the OPs contact has a warrent in her hand she can decide what to do is absurd - if she has the warrant in her hand, the odds are there will be someone at her property fitting the meter as she reads it.  If she decides to object at that point it will become a police matter.

Plus she will be paying for the cost of the court warrant. It was £150 when I was on the job .

Warrant costs are added to the smart meter which will be fitted in prepayment meter mode. Suppliers add the debt  to the meter to be paid back at a weekly amount .
Suppliers have to  go through this sort of thing often force fitting meters and will have no problem asking for Police back up in the event of obstruction. If they need a locksmith to enter that too is added to the smart meter .

I suggest you get onto the likes of Citizens Advice and Which because they are assuring people that the DO NOT need to accept a smart meter. There is no way on earth that a court will issue an order giving an energy company access to someone's home when the information in the public domain - from trusted sources - is that the energy company CANNOT force you to accept an energy meter.

If they insist it needs replacing because it's too old they need to provide details - if they say it's not safe they need to provide evidence. They have not yet done this so the courts would not entertain any efforts to get a court order. 

The old lady can relax and ignore people wittering about police and court orders. Citizens Advice say they're wrong.