Deleted

ariarnia

i'm glad it sounds you have a solution that works for you and thank you for updating so others who might be in the same mindset can use it to think about what they want to do.

@Deleted_User i'm glad it sounds like its been sorted for you (well mostly depending on if the dd gets changed ok) but does this mean you dont have a problem with dd or that the problem with dd isnt enough that you want to pay the extra to pay cash if the dd can be set at the level you want (just want you said before about them being able to dip in whenever and not wanting a dd at all)? 

pseudodox

It is important to air all views & individual solutions.  No-one should be forced into something they are not happy with or perhaps just don't understand. I would not suggest everyone should do things my way, just advise them they DO have choices.  Unfortunately these days it is not so easy to know what they are unless you are pretty determined.

ariarnia

pseudodox said:

It is important to air all views & individual solutions.  No-one should be forced into something they are not happy with or perhaps just don't understand. I would not suggest everyone should do things my way, just advise them they DO have choices.  Unfortunately these days it is not so easy to know what they are unless you are pretty determined.

this is where i think scarter and i were disagreeing before. i think most people just arent that interested. and the system is set up to protect those people from risk so the system of dds works well for most people (and i actually think theres far to much protection so when something does go wrong people jump to accusations of fraud and conspiracy rather than taking a second to think if its because they didn't do basic things like give meter readings or pay attention to what they were agreeing to. not even mentioning the cap 'protecting' people from high prices if they arent interested in looking at fixes which caused the mess were in now).

i think if you are interested and spend even a little while looking for info theres lots of it and its not hard to understand (or i wouldn't get it ). its on the suppliers websites or ofgem or the ombudsman or citizens advice but also on places like this which normally turn up right at the top of the google search results (and the only thing i think i actually like about this new site is the search function is actually really good). getting the companies to do what you want might be hard (but you can always switch). actually finding the info and someone to explain it if you need them to isn't (i don't think). 

ariarnia

Deleted_User said:

pseudodox said:

It is important to air all views & individual solutions.  No-one should be forced into something they are not happy with or perhaps just don't understand. I would not suggest everyone should do things my way, just advise them they DO have choices.  Unfortunately these days it is not so easy to know what they are unless you are pretty determined.

A prime example of this is the situation re smart meters. Are we legally required to have one or not? Energy companies are insisting to some people that they are legally entitled to force them on us (using end of life excuse). Many on here are advising likewise. Yet Citizens Advice are still saying you can refuse - as are Which. They say the energy company MUST provide proof if they're claiming that your old meter needs replacing.

There is a MASSIVE power grab going on. A lot of coercion and intimidation. 

So, there's a challenge for someone - what's the definitive answer to this question - and I don't just mean opinion but actual evidence as to whether or not we can refuse to have one?

This is rhetorical question - just to illustrate the problem that I see - and the reason that I'm shifting gears into reverse and hitting the gas peddle to get out of the clutches of these big corporations. 

you have said rhetorical but its actually in the citizen advice page on smart meters. right where it says you dont have to have one it also says that if your smart meter is unsafe then you might not be able to refuse if your supplier only has smart meters in stock (which most do now). and they say you can call there help line if your supplier is insisting so they could tell you over the phone the answer for you one way or antoher.

but as has been said on here unsafe includes out of certification (there only certified safe for a set number of years so if the certificate has expired there considered not safe) so if your supplier says they need to replace it because its out of life then all they have to prove is the certificate has expired. 

nothing about the question is hard or complicated and all the info is on that page. but some wont want to accept it so they'll only read the first bit or keep looking for a different answer because there not looking for 'the answer' but are looking for a way to get what they want (which is understandable) and then say it's complicated when it really isnt. 

ariarnia

Deleted_User said:

"but as has been said on here unsafe includes out of certification (there only certified safe for a set number of years so if the certificate has expired there considered not safe) so if your supplier says they need to replace it because its out of life then all they have to prove is the certificate has expired. "

Are you certain about this? Has this been tested in the courts?

My mothers house had the same meter for 40 years. As did my MIL's. I've lived in a couple of houses with VERY old meters.

Many people are reporting that their smart meters aren't working but the energy companies are refusing to fix them. 

I'm not being argumentative when I say - do you have evidence that what you claim is true? If it IS true that they are legally required to replace an out of certification meter then they could presumably be FORCED to do so when the customer demands it and not just when it suits their purpose? 

Just because you read something on a website doesn't mean it's true. And this is the problem. 

its already been posted on a differnt thread that the goverment made it law energy companies could replace end of life smart meters by applying to the court for a warrant of entry. no way ofor the customer to refuse. i'm 99% confident you were arguing the point on that thread so i'm not digging it up for you but if you do a search of the forum i'm sure you'll find it. 

and if you have a faulty smart meter with your supplier refusing to fix it then you should put in a complaint. wait 8 weeks. then go to the ombudsman who will rule on it. not because the customer 'demands' anything but because they have a responsibility to replace faulty meters the same as they do unsafe and expired ones. 

Spoonie_Turtle

ariarnia said:

Deleted_User said:

"but as has been said on here unsafe includes out of certification (there only certified safe for a set number of years so if the certificate has expired there considered not safe) so if your supplier says they need to replace it because its out of life then all they have to prove is the certificate has expired. "

Are you certain about this? Has this been tested in the courts?

My mothers house had the same meter for 40 years. As did my MIL's. I've lived in a couple of houses with VERY old meters.

Many people are reporting that their smart meters aren't working but the energy companies are refusing to fix them. 

I'm not being argumentative when I say - do you have evidence that what you claim is true? If it IS true that they are legally required to replace an out of certification meter then they could presumably be FORCED to do so when the customer demands it and not just when it suits their purpose? 

Just because you read something on a website doesn't mean it's true. And this is the problem. 

its already been posted on a differnt thread that the goverment made it law energy companies could replace end of life smart meters by applying to the court for a warrant of entry. no way ofor the customer to refuse. i'm 99% confident you were arguing the point on that thread so i'm not digging it up for you but if you do a search of the forum i'm sure you'll find it. 

Here we are, just because I like being helpful *grin*
(but actually really because I put a decent amount of effort into citing the sources for that comment and don't want it to go to waste.)
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6401140/smart-meters-e-on-sneaky-new-end-of-meter-life-tactic/p6

ariarnia

Spoonie_Turtle said:

ariarnia said:

Deleted_User said:

"but as has been said on here unsafe includes out of certification (there only certified safe for a set number of years so if the certificate has expired there considered not safe) so if your supplier says they need to replace it because its out of life then all they have to prove is the certificate has expired. "

Are you certain about this? Has this been tested in the courts?

My mothers house had the same meter for 40 years. As did my MIL's. I've lived in a couple of houses with VERY old meters.

Many people are reporting that their smart meters aren't working but the energy companies are refusing to fix them. 

I'm not being argumentative when I say - do you have evidence that what you claim is true? If it IS true that they are legally required to replace an out of certification meter then they could presumably be FORCED to do so when the customer demands it and not just when it suits their purpose? 

Just because you read something on a website doesn't mean it's true. And this is the problem. 

its already been posted on a differnt thread that the goverment made it law energy companies could replace end of life smart meters by applying to the court for a warrant of entry. no way ofor the customer to refuse. i'm 99% confident you were arguing the point on that thread so i'm not digging it up for you but if you do a search of the forum i'm sure you'll find it. 

Here we are, just because I like being helpful *grin*
(but actually really because I put a decent amount of effort into citing the sources for that comment and don't want it to go to waste.)
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6401140/smart-meters-e-on-sneaky-new-end-of-meter-life-tactic/p6

thanks (for finding and writing) i was just plating up for dinner and couldnt be bothered to look. 

Deleted_User said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

ariarnia said:

Deleted_User said:

"but as has been said on here unsafe includes out of certification (there only certified safe for a set number of years so if the certificate has expired there considered not safe) so if your supplier says they need to replace it because its out of life then all they have to prove is the certificate has expired. "

Are you certain about this? Has this been tested in the courts?

My mothers house had the same meter for 40 years. As did my MIL's. I've lived in a couple of houses with VERY old meters.

Many people are reporting that their smart meters aren't working but the energy companies are refusing to fix them. 

I'm not being argumentative when I say - do you have evidence that what you claim is true? If it IS true that they are legally required to replace an out of certification meter then they could presumably be FORCED to do so when the customer demands it and not just when it suits their purpose? 

Just because you read something on a website doesn't mean it's true. And this is the problem. 

its already been posted on a differnt thread that the goverment made it law energy companies could replace end of life smart meters by applying to the court for a warrant of entry. no way ofor the customer to refuse. i'm 99% confident you were arguing the point on that thread so i'm not digging it up for you but if you do a search of the forum i'm sure you'll find it. 

Here we are, just because I like being helpful *grin*
(but actually really because I put a decent amount of effort into citing the sources for that comment and don't want it to go to waste.)
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6401140/smart-meters-e-on-sneaky-new-end-of-meter-life-tactic/p6

So **IF** that is legally enforceable - then people have been misled by the oft repeated claims that they have a legal right to refuse a smart meter. So why have so many people (including Martin Lewis from MSE) participated in a conspiracy to deceive the public?

And **IF** it's a legal requirement then the energy companies would face penalties for FAILING to replace very old meters. For example, my Mother's house had the same meter for 40 years. 

Lots of people are keen to get smart meters but can't - I bet a lot of them have old meters.

And the fact still remains - people can and will challenge this in the courts. So we can't yet accuse Martin Lewis of publishing false information because he may well still be proven correct. 

this is what i mean about people choosing to selectively interpret things because they dont like the answer.

a warrant is granted by the court AFTER  a hearing. at that hearing the supplier presents evidence and the court decides if a warrant is lawful. if the law says an expired certificate and home owner refusal to allow entry is enough to grant a warrant (which is what the law says quite clearly) then the court will grant one. on what grounds would the home owner challenge it? (not liking the law isnt a ground). unless you have evidence your meter isn't out of certification then the court wouldn't even hear your argument. 

so its not wrong to say people can refuse a smart meter. they can. unless the smart meter is unsafe. which includes the safety certificate being expired. if people arent sure if there situation is one where they can refuse then then can call the citizens advice helpline. 

all of which is clearly on the citizen advice page and none of which is complicated or difficult to understand. 

And **IF** it's a legal requirement then the energy companies would face penalties for FAILING to replace very old meters. For example, my Mother's house had the same meter for 40 years. 

if you can give the make and model of your mother's smart meter then i;m sure someone will check if it was one of the models with a more than 40 year cirticificate. if not and its still in place then i'm sure someone will help you write a complaint to get it replaced. if its not replaced then in 8 weeks i'm sure someone will help you write your case for the ombudsmen. you know. the process by which you can get your supplier to do something they are supposed to do if they arent doing it. 

ariarnia

Deleted_User said:

ariarnia said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

ariarnia said:

Deleted_User said:

"but as has been said on here unsafe includes out of certification (there only certified safe for a set number of years so if the certificate has expired there considered not safe) so if your supplier says they need to replace it because its out of life then all they have to prove is the certificate has expired. "

Are you certain about this? Has this been tested in the courts?

My mothers house had the same meter for 40 years. As did my MIL's. I've lived in a couple of houses with VERY old meters.

Many people are reporting that their smart meters aren't working but the energy companies are refusing to fix them. 

I'm not being argumentative when I say - do you have evidence that what you claim is true? If it IS true that they are legally required to replace an out of certification meter then they could presumably be FORCED to do so when the customer demands it and not just when it suits their purpose? 

Just because you read something on a website doesn't mean it's true. And this is the problem. 

its already been posted on a differnt thread that the goverment made it law energy companies could replace end of life smart meters by applying to the court for a warrant of entry. no way ofor the customer to refuse. i'm 99% confident you were arguing the point on that thread so i'm not digging it up for you but if you do a search of the forum i'm sure you'll find it. 

Here we are, just because I like being helpful *grin*
(but actually really because I put a decent amount of effort into citing the sources for that comment and don't want it to go to waste.)
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6401140/smart-meters-e-on-sneaky-new-end-of-meter-life-tactic/p6

thanks (for finding and writing) i was just plating up for dinner and couldnt be bothered to look. 

Deleted_User said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

ariarnia said:

Deleted_User said:

"but as has been said on here unsafe includes out of certification (there only certified safe for a set number of years so if the certificate has expired there considered not safe) so if your supplier says they need to replace it because its out of life then all they have to prove is the certificate has expired. "

Are you certain about this? Has this been tested in the courts?

My mothers house had the same meter for 40 years. As did my MIL's. I've lived in a couple of houses with VERY old meters.

Many people are reporting that their smart meters aren't working but the energy companies are refusing to fix them. 

I'm not being argumentative when I say - do you have evidence that what you claim is true? If it IS true that they are legally required to replace an out of certification meter then they could presumably be FORCED to do so when the customer demands it and not just when it suits their purpose? 

Just because you read something on a website doesn't mean it's true. And this is the problem. 

its already been posted on a differnt thread that the goverment made it law energy companies could replace end of life smart meters by applying to the court for a warrant of entry. no way ofor the customer to refuse. i'm 99% confident you were arguing the point on that thread so i'm not digging it up for you but if you do a search of the forum i'm sure you'll find it. 

Here we are, just because I like being helpful *grin*
(but actually really because I put a decent amount of effort into citing the sources for that comment and don't want it to go to waste.)
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6401140/smart-meters-e-on-sneaky-new-end-of-meter-life-tactic/p6

So **IF** that is legally enforceable - then people have been misled by the oft repeated claims that they have a legal right to refuse a smart meter. So why have so many people (including Martin Lewis from MSE) participated in a conspiracy to deceive the public?

And **IF** it's a legal requirement then the energy companies would face penalties for FAILING to replace very old meters. For example, my Mother's house had the same meter for 40 years. 

Lots of people are keen to get smart meters but can't - I bet a lot of them have old meters.

And the fact still remains - people can and will challenge this in the courts. So we can't yet accuse Martin Lewis of publishing false information because he may well still be proven correct. 

this is what i mean about people choosing to selectively interpret things because they dont like the answer.

a warrant is granted by the court AFTER  a hearing. at that hearing the supplier presents evidence and the court decides if a warrant is lawful. if the law says an expired certificate and home owner refusal to allow entry is enough to grant a warrant (which is what the law says quite clearly) then the court will grant one. on what grounds would the home owner challenge it? (not liking the law isnt a ground). unless you have evidence your meter isn't out of certification then the court wouldn't even hear your argument. 

so its not wrong to say people can refuse a smart meter. they can. unless the smart meter is unsafe. which includes the safety certificate being expired. if people arent sure if there situation is one where they can refuse then then can call the citizens advice helpline. 

all of which is clearly on the citizen advice page and none of which is complicated or difficult to understand. 

And **IF** it's a legal requirement then the energy companies would face penalties for FAILING to replace very old meters. For example, my Mother's house had the same meter for 40 years. 

if you can give the make and model of your mother's smart meter then i;m sure someone will check if it was one of the models with a more than 40 year cirticificate. if not and its still in place then i'm sure someone will help you write a complaint to get it replaced. if its not replaced then in 8 weeks i'm sure someone will help you write your case for the ombudsmen. you know. the process by which you can get your supplier to do something they are supposed to do if they arent doing it. 

Are you now saying that an energy company must obtain a warrant before they can change someone's meter against their wishes? If so, and if you're 100% certain of that please do provide a link to your source. Because energy companies are writing to people telling them they have to have their current meter replaced with a smart meter. You now seem to be saying they should wait for a court order rather than blindly believing the energy company (who have a vested interest in misleading people).

i'm not 'now' saying anything new. ive been saying apply to the court for a warrant for several posts. 

anyone who wants to enter someones home without there permission needs either a warrant/order or to reason to beleve someones life is in immidiate danger (so permission from the court either before or after entering without the home owners permission). thats the police, ambulances, energy companies, tv licensing, bailiffs. they all need a warrant from the court or (whatever the legal word is for believing there's an emergency thats a danger to life) if the person living there says they can't come in. i don't need to provide a link to that. you can google it. that's what a warrant of entry is. the courts permission to enter a private home when the person living there refuses to let you. 

and no i'm not saying people should wait for a court order. thats a waste of court time and tax payer money. i dont think there's a strong case for refusing a smart meter. but i respect that others disagree and dont want one until there forced. and that they have the right to refuse. but the reality is that they can only refuse to a point. so what i'm saying people who want to wait until a warrant is granted can. but that the law is quite clear that suppliers can enter homes to replace expired meters with smart meters without the home owners permission. just like they can enter to fit pre pay meters without permission. or enter to disconnect the supply without permission. 

It is a lie of omission to broadcast the headline that you can refuse a smart meter then in the small print say - until your current meter (despite being still safe and working fine) has reached the end of it's certified life. 

no it isn't. if your energy company offers you a smart meter you can refuse. and for most people receiving letters about now it will be an offer. and they can refuse.

it's not small print or difficult to understand that the situation is different if its an unsafe meter that will need to be replaced and if the supplier only has smart meters then that is what they will replace it with. everyone knows there are times when your rights are restricted or taken away. especially when it involves public safety or danger to life. 

The fact that it hasn't been spelled out clearly like that suggests to me that your understanding might be wrong. Either that, or for some reason those publishing information want to mislead. 

and it suggests to me that your overcomplicating it because you just want what you have been told by several people and websites to be wrong or part of a conspiracy because you dont agree with the idea of smart meters. 

ariarnia

There are so many questions and people simply aren't being given reliable information.

i disagree the information is perfectly reliable and the legal position is clear. your listing a load of things and saying they are contradictions but they arent. the actual facts are very simple. 

Which? make it clear that if an energy company says it wants to replace your meter because it's at the end of it's life you can ask them for evidence. You shouldn't just take their word for it.

So you can't assume that your meter is at end of life simply because you get a letter saying it is. 

yes you can. there is absolutely nothing stopping you from taking there word for it and having your meter replaced. you do not HAVE to take there word for it. you can ask for evidence if you want to. 

Where are all the articles clearly explaining to people how to establish whether claims that their meter is at end of life are true? 

meter certification isnt a secret. thats the whole point of it. maufacturers have to have there meters certified and the information is in the public domain. if you ask your supplier for evidence they will probably send you a link like the one spoonie already gave you showing the differnt types of meters and how long they are certified for. then you can look at your meter and the date on the seal from when it was certified. its not rocket science. if you are in doubt then you can refuse entry. as is your right. then they will take the evidence to the court to get a warrant and you will no longer be able to (legally) refuse them entry. 

You say that this would be verified before a court order is issued.
I say it should be verified before you let the energy company anywhere near your property.

if you refuse entry then the court hearing will be before the warrant is granted so will be before the energy company enter your property. so that should make you happy at least. 

We're not talking about unsafe meters when it comes to end of certified life. A meter will typically continue to work safely and accurately for many, many years after the end of it's certified life. Which is no doubt why they didn't feel the need to replace my mum's 40 year old meter which was safe and working perfectly.

you've already been given a link to the law where the goverment decided an uncertified meter is an unsafe meter and could be replaced without the homeowners permission. you have also yet to provide evidence of this 40 year old meter. for all we know its one that had a 45 year certification so wasnt due to be replaced anyway.

 The reason why this should have been the headline and NOT the small print is because the certified life of a meter is pretty short. New homes have been fitted with smart meters for a good few years now and most people are probably getting close to the end of certified life. So telling them they can legally decline a smart meter is very misleading - in practice most won't be able to.

the certified life of a meter isnt that short. the roll out of smart meters in new homes was quite slow from what ive read on here as there wasnt enough to go around and theres still a shortage so there's probably plenty of meters out there with at least 10 years on them and lots of people who activly want a smart meter and havent been able to get one yet to keep demand high. 

As I say, this can still be challenged in the courts. If a meter is working perfectly maybe the courts will rule that consumers must be given the option to have their current meter recertified. 

you claim it can be challenged. on what grounds? like i said. disagreeing with the law isnt something the court will consider an argument. courts work within the law set by the govermnet and the government want everyone to have smart meters. by the time its got to the court that ship has sailed. if you want to try that argument then you need to try it with your supplier before it gets to court. i'd be interested to see how it goes. and i expect if they agree it would cost you a LOT to get a single meter recertified privately. 

I am not overcomplicating it. I am pointing out the stark reality that people haven't been given clear information and even now most people aren't clear about the legal position.

yes you are. the information is clear and MOST people are clear about the legal position. the legal position is they dont care one way or another or actually want a smart meter and wouldn't refuse entry anyway. 

Another thing that's not been made clear. If you don't want a smart meter but the energy company say your current meter is at the end of it's life can you just tell them to decommission the old meter and leave you disconnected from the grid?

again something that's perfectly clear for anyone willing to spend even a short time on google. its the same information someone having an extension would look for. yes you can ask for your supply to be disconnected. it'll cost you money. and if you want it back again in the future it will cost you more money. the exact amount depends on where your meters are and what needs to happen to disconnect them. 

https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect

ariarnia

Deleted_User said:

ariarnia said:

There are so many questions and people simply aren't being given reliable information.

i disagree the information is perfectly reliable and the legal position is clear. your listing a load of things and saying they are contradictions but they arent. the actual facts are very simple. 

Which? make it clear that if an energy company says it wants to replace your meter because it's at the end of it's life you can ask them for evidence. You shouldn't just take their word for it.

So you can't assume that your meter is at end of life simply because you get a letter saying it is. 

yes you can. there is absolutely nothing stopping you from taking there word for it and having your meter replaced. you do not HAVE to take there word for it. you can ask for evidence if you want to. 

Where are all the articles clearly explaining to people how to establish whether claims that their meter is at end of life are true? 

meter certification isnt a secret. thats the whole point of it. maufacturers have to have there meters certified and the information is in the public domain. if you ask your supplier for evidence they will probably send you a link like the one spoonie already gave you showing the differnt types of meters and how long they are certified for. then you can look at your meter and the date on the seal from when it was certified. its not rocket science. if you are in doubt then you can refuse entry. as is your right. then they will take the evidence to the court to get a warrant and you will no longer be able to (legally) refuse them entry. 

You say that this would be verified before a court order is issued.
I say it should be verified before you let the energy company anywhere near your property.

if you refuse entry then the court hearing will be before the warrant is granted so will be before the energy company enter your property. so that should make you happy at least. 

We're not talking about unsafe meters when it comes to end of certified life. A meter will typically continue to work safely and accurately for many, many years after the end of it's certified life. Which is no doubt why they didn't feel the need to replace my mum's 40 year old meter which was safe and working perfectly.

you've already been given a link to the law where the goverment decided an uncertified meter is an unsafe meter and could be replaced without the homeowners permission. you have also yet to provide evidence of this 40 year old meter. for all we know its one that had a 45 year certification so wasnt due to be replaced anyway.

 The reason why this should have been the headline and NOT the small print is because the certified life of a meter is pretty short. New homes have been fitted with smart meters for a good few years now and most people are probably getting close to the end of certified life. So telling them they can legally decline a smart meter is very misleading - in practice most won't be able to.

the certified life of a meter isnt that short. the roll out of smart meters in new homes was quite slow from what ive read on here as there wasnt enough to go around and theres still a shortage so there's probably plenty of meters out there with at least 10 years on them and lots of people who activly want a smart meter and havent been able to get one yet to keep demand high. 

As I say, this can still be challenged in the courts. If a meter is working perfectly maybe the courts will rule that consumers must be given the option to have their current meter recertified. 

you claim it can be challenged. on what grounds? like i said. disagreeing with the law isnt something the court will consider an argument. courts work within the law set by the govermnet and the government want everyone to have smart meters. by the time its got to the court that ship has sailed. if you want to try that argument then you need to try it with your supplier before it gets to court. i'd be interested to see how it goes. and i expect if they agree it would cost you a LOT to get a single meter recertified privately. 

I am not overcomplicating it. I am pointing out the stark reality that people haven't been given clear information and even now most people aren't clear about the legal position.

yes you are. the information is clear and MOST people are clear about the legal position. the legal position is they dont care one way or another or actually want a smart meter and wouldn't refuse entry anyway. 

Another thing that's not been made clear. If you don't want a smart meter but the energy company say your current meter is at the end of it's life can you just tell them to decommission the old meter and leave you disconnected from the grid?

again something that's perfectly clear for anyone willing to spend even a short time on google. its the same information someone having an extension would look for. yes you can ask for your supply to be disconnected. it'll cost you money. and if you want it back again in the future it will cost you more money. the exact amount depends on where your meters are and what needs to happen to disconnect them. 

https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect

That is all just you reiterating YOUR understanding of the information that's been shared in random places. 

Most people have been lulled into a false sense of security by the very heavily publicised claim that you are legally entitled to turn down an smart meter. But unless you're living in a relatively new house that isn't going to be the case.

Most people don't spend all day reading through long discussions between random people on MSE forums. Therefore they aren't privy to the little bits of obscure info that people have dug up. 

Most people I know think they can decline a smart meter - they aren't aware of the small print that will FORCE them to get one within the year.

Most people I know don't know how to verify whether what the energy company tell them about their meter being at the end of it's life is true.

Most people I know don't know what the legal position is if they would rather go off grid than allow a smart meter to be fitted.  You have made assumptions based upon what you've read about having a supply disconnected. But we're talking here about a different situation where the energy company have decommissioned your meter and are unable to replace like with like. THEY have made the decision to terminate the supply - not you.

You see - you are reading a bit on Google and making assumptions about what you think is true. That's all anyone can do. Because the energy company and the government have failed to provide clear and accurate information - they've publicised half truths and misled people.

The reason most people haven't spent hours on google trying to track down all this information is because of the widespread campaign to reassure people that they are legally entitled to refuse a smart meter. People therefore didn't think they needed to band together and seek legal advice. If those people had a semblance of trust before this will be the final nail in the coffin. 

That is all just you reiterating YOUR understanding of the information that's been shared in random places  

i don't know the people you know but in my experience the reason most people haven't spent hours on google trying to track down all this information is because most people dont care about getting a smart meter (or actually want one).

i'm not reading 'a bit on google' to know how warrants of entry work and i'm not reading google to know the court will rule based on what the law says not if someone really wants a different option and wants to twist things to try to justify it. no matter how much they beleve there arguments are good or how passionate they are. but twisting things doesn't make them unclear and like i said it's not that the information is unreliable or inaccurate or hard to find. it;s that its not saying what you want it to say.