Filmed by cyclist touching a device

cymruchris

The difficulty here is that nobody has seen the 'evidence' not even the OP - so we are all surmising as to what happened, and what the possible outcomes are. Until the footage is reviewed, nobody can make an informed recommendation. It might be 2 seconds long, 10 seconds long, 29 seconds long. It might or might not show the OP's face clearly. It might or might not show the registration number of the vehicle clearly. It might or might not show so many things. The best bet is to get hold of the footage and once viewed decide on the best course of action. 

Grumpy_chap

user1977 said:

Indeed - the devices which purely open garage doors, barriers etc do not (typically) "perform an interactive communication function by transmitting and receiving data" so aren't caught by the regulations we've been talking about anyway.

Do they not?
Surely, garage door devices communicate the instruction "UP" or "DOWN" and do so by transmitting data, though quite probably do not receive data.
Does the device have to "transmit and receive" data or is one or the other sufficient to be covered by the rules?

user1977

Grumpy_chap said:

user1977 said:

Indeed - the devices which purely open garage doors, barriers etc do not (typically) "perform an interactive communication function by transmitting and receiving data" so aren't caught by the regulations we've been talking about anyway.

Do they not?
Surely, garage door devices communicate the instruction "UP" or "DOWN" and do so by transmitting data, though quite probably do not receive data.
Does the device have to "transmit and receive" data or is one or the other sufficient to be covered by the rules?

The fact it says "transmit and receive", and refers to "interactive" functions (i.e. two-way) suggest that merely transmitting isn't enough.

DanDare999

user1977 said:

sheramber said:

if the phone isn't being held but  is in a cradle  on the dash, is using it to send a text while driving okay?

You are not holding it so it must be, from what is being said.

It wouldn't be an offence under those regulations - it's the same as fiddling with anything else on your dashboard - so still potentially careless driving.

So if you maintained your position on the road, between the lines, not gaining or losing distance on the car ahead it's ok?

user1977

DanDare999 said:

user1977 said:

sheramber said:

if the phone isn't being held but  is in a cradle  on the dash, is using it to send a text while driving okay?

You are not holding it so it must be, from what is being said.

It wouldn't be an offence under those regulations - it's the same as fiddling with anything else on your dashboard - so still potentially careless driving.

So if you maintained your position on the road, between the lines, not gaining or losing distance on the car ahead it's ok?

I don't think careless driving necessarily requires the driver to have swerved etc, could still be charged just because they're e.g. taking their eyes off the road for an excessive period.

TooManyPoints

No, the regulations define (in para (6)(a)) what "hand-held" means for the purposes of the regulations -

Para 6(a) defines the device type. It does not define what may and may not be done with it.

...and that says that a phone is treated as hand-held if it is actually being held while being used.

Does it? My copy says "...if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function." It says nothing about it actually being held whilst being used. 

Following your logic, you could be illegally "using" the phone by voice command -

No you couldn't. If a phone is set up to respond to voice command it need not be held at some point to make or receive a call. Similarly, one in place in a cradle (even if otherwise "hand-held") need not. You could argue that a phone being used on the driver's knee or the passenger seat need not be held. But that argument would not succeed. 

I think I'll leave this, as it is clear we will not agree. I think the best way to prove the point would be to take a phone with you whilst driving, put it on your lap and make a call, ensuring you don't hold it at any time and then making sure you are caught, then see how you get on. I'm not going to do that because the legislation adequately covers such an event and I am quite sure what the outcome would be.

DanDare999

user1977 said:

DanDare999 said:

user1977 said:

sheramber said:

if the phone isn't being held but  is in a cradle  on the dash, is using it to send a text while driving okay?

You are not holding it so it must be, from what is being said.

It wouldn't be an offence under those regulations - it's the same as fiddling with anything else on your dashboard - so still potentially careless driving.

So if you maintained your position on the road, between the lines, not gaining or losing distance on the car ahead it's ok?

I don't think careless driving necessarily requires the driver to have swerved etc, could still be charged just because they're e.g. taking their eyes off the road for an excessive period.

No, it requires their driving to be below the standard of a competent driver. You're saying as long as you drive to that standard you can text with a phone on the dash. 

facade

DanDare999 said:

user1977 said:

DanDare999 said:

user1977 said:

sheramber said:

if the phone isn't being held but  is in a cradle  on the dash, is using it to send a text while driving okay?

You are not holding it so it must be, from what is being said.

It wouldn't be an offence under those regulations - it's the same as fiddling with anything else on your dashboard - so still potentially careless driving.

So if you maintained your position on the road, between the lines, not gaining or losing distance on the car ahead it's ok?

I don't think careless driving necessarily requires the driver to have swerved etc, could still be charged just because they're e.g. taking their eyes off the road for an excessive period.

No, it requires their driving to be below the standard of a competent driver. You're saying as long as you drive to that standard you can text with a phone on the dash. 

An imaginary competent driver* would not take their eyes off the road for that length of time, so it is still careless.

How the Police would know is another matter. If you didn't notice them (or another car with dashcam) following you closely enough to film it, alongside you, or at the roadside filming then clearly the inattention caused by texting is careless

*Magistrates do not live in the Real World. Their idea of what a competent driver would do and mine (and probably yours) differ somewhat.

DanDare999

facade said:

DanDare999 said:

user1977 said:

DanDare999 said:

user1977 said:

sheramber said:

if the phone isn't being held but  is in a cradle  on the dash, is using it to send a text while driving okay?

You are not holding it so it must be, from what is being said.

It wouldn't be an offence under those regulations - it's the same as fiddling with anything else on your dashboard - so still potentially careless driving.

So if you maintained your position on the road, between the lines, not gaining or losing distance on the car ahead it's ok?

I don't think careless driving necessarily requires the driver to have swerved etc, could still be charged just because they're e.g. taking their eyes off the road for an excessive period.

No, it requires their driving to be below the standard of a competent driver. You're saying as long as you drive to that standard you can text with a phone on the dash. 

An imaginary competent driver* would not take their eyes off the road for that length of time, so it is still careless.

How the Police would know is another matter. If you didn't notice them (or another car with dashcam) following you closely enough to film it, alongside you, or at the roadside filming then clearly the inattention caused by texting is careless

*Magistrates do not live in the Real World. Their idea of what a competent driver would do and mine (and probably yours) differ somewhat.

A momentary glance down is no worse than looking at the speedo or retuning a radio so it's not careless. 

billy2shots

There is obviously clear distinction between devices rather than just how you hold them. It's why Top Gear can get away with driving on the road communicating with walkie-talkie radios and not phones. 

I'm sure BBC would have done their homework and checked with the legal department.