Filmed by cyclist touching a device

user1977

TooManyPoints said:

But I'm struggling to think of any likely type of mobile phone to which that would apply.

A phone without a cradle meets that definition, surely. Or are you saying that because it could be operated (say, by placing it on a table - or the passenger seat) it does not qualify?

Yes, the offence only applies if either the driver was actually holding it, or if it was a device which could only be operated by holding it (which I presume is to get around any defence where the driver wasn't caught with it in their hand, but there is evidence of a prohibited "use").

As I said, that being the case, a driver could make a call with the phone on, say, the passenger seat, and not be guilty of the offence. Clearly that is nonsensical.

I don't think it matters where the phone is, as long as the driver isn't holding it. Obviously it's going to be trickier to use it, without holding it at some point, if it's just loose on a seat.

It is an offence to use a hand-held mobile phone whilst driving. It is for a court to decide whether the touching amounts to "using".

No, the "use" is the type of function you're carrying out with the device, not the type of touching. You could after all be using it for one of the prohibited functions without touching it at all - but none of that is an offence unless you're holding it.

baser999

Using it balanced on your knee, or whilst it’s lying on the passenger seat . . . . surely the police would argue that you must have held or touched the phone to have either made an outgoing call or received an incoming one? Otherwise may as well hold the phone then throw it on the other seat or put it on your lap if the police stop you. 

[Deleted User]

baser999 said:

Using it balanced on your knee, or whilst it’s lying on the passenger seat . . . . surely the police would argue that you must have held or touched the phone to have either made an outgoing call or received an incoming one? Otherwise may as well hold the phone then throw it on the other seat or put it on your lap if the police stop you. 

Most phones can make calls using voice control. I've done that with the phone in a slot my car has for storing stuff, or with the phone in my pocket and Bluetooth audio.

Balancing it on your knee would probably be not driving without due care.

DanDare999

[Deleted User] said:

baser999 said:

Using it balanced on your knee, or whilst it’s lying on the passenger seat . . . . surely the police would argue that you must have held or touched the phone to have either made an outgoing call or received an incoming one? Otherwise may as well hold the phone then throw it on the other seat or put it on your lap if the police stop you. 

Most phones can make calls using voice control. I've done that with the phone in a slot my car has for storing stuff, or with the phone in my pocket and Bluetooth audio.

Balancing it on your knee would probably be not driving without due care.

Why? I don't use the left leg when driving. 

BikingBud

DanDare999 said:

rigolith said:

baser999 said:

Using it balanced on your knee, or whilst it’s lying on the passenger seat . . . . surely the police would argue that you must have held or touched the phone to have either made an outgoing call or received an incoming one? Otherwise may as well hold the phone then throw it on the other seat or put it on your lap if the police stop you. 

Most phones can make calls using voice control. I've done that with the phone in a slot my car has for storing stuff, or with the phone in my pocket and Bluetooth audio.

Balancing it on your knee would probably be not driving without due care.

Why? I don't use the left leg when driving. 

Until you brake suddenly and it falls off your knee and under the pedals and restricts effective control🙈🙉🙊

user1977

baser999 said:

Using it balanced on your knee, or whilst it’s lying on the passenger seat . . . . surely the police would argue that you must have held or touched the phone to have either made an outgoing call or received an incoming one?

If they think they can prove that you were holding the phone (while using it and while driving), perhaps. But like I said, it's holding the phone which is a necessary part of the offence - touching the phone is not an offence.

Or at least, it's not this offence - if you're sufficiently distracted then you could still be done for careless driving etc.

photome

baser999 said:

Using it balanced on your knee, or whilst it’s lying on the passenger seat . . . . surely the police would argue that you must have held or touched the phone to have either made an outgoing call or received an incoming one? Otherwise may as well hold the phone then throw it on the other seat or put it on your lap if the police stop you. 

My phone can be anywhere in the car and I can still use it without touching it, either by using the touchscreen in the car or voice control

Emmia

Touching the device is not holding, but does imply that one of the OPs hands was not being used to operate/control the vehicle (e.g. holding the steering wheel).

By touching the device they were also doing something that arguably would have distracted their attention from the road, since they were probably looking at their device whilst touching it... 

flaneurs_lobster

jsrose said:

So i have been sent a charge notice by Police as a member of the public sent in footage from his dashcam - a cyclist - touching a device - not holding it - while statist traffic lights. 

I would love to grass up the many offending motorists I see on a daily basis when cycling. Is there a central address to send footage or does each police force have their own process? 

facade

I'm losing the will to live wading through the arguments, has the OP actually said where exactly the 'phone was and why they were touching it?