help with internal door hinge that keeps working loose - NOW FALLEN OFF ITS HINGES! -now fixed

Bendy_House

silvercar said:

The door is heavy, I can’t lift it without help. It’s one of these https://www.todd-doors.co.uk/iseo-k4500-oak-door solid core with oak veneer. 

It’s beyond my diy skills now, particularly as it crashed so spectacularly- it sounded like there were fireworks exploding in the house! I don’t want to risk that falling on anyone.

Good call - that's a heavy door, and should ideally have three hinges in any case.

travis-powers

Firstly I hope no one was hurt!
 The site doesn’t give a weight but to pull out the screws from the bottom hinge takes substantial force!
 A door lining is around 32mm thick and 1930s timber was a higher quality, I wonder if this doorway was added at a later date?
 Personally as it would take some time to splice in new timber I would consider replacing the lining with a new one, this gives the opportunity to get the door hung perfectly, I would also fit a middle hinge and consider doing the same to the other doors.
 

silvercar

travis-powers said:

Firstly I hope no one was hurt!
 The site doesn’t give a weight but to pull out the screws from the bottom hinge takes substantial force!
 A door lining is around 32mm thick and 1930s timber was a higher quality, I wonder if this doorway was added at a later date?
 Personally as it would take some time to splice in new timber I would consider replacing the lining with a new one, this gives the opportunity to get the door hung perfectly, I would also fit a middle hinge and consider doing the same to the other doors.
 

No-one was hurt. No one in the room when it happened. Which was weird as no one had touched the door for hours.

None of the other doors - and there are 5 more - have had problems, though this one is used most frequently. Really think that the doorway is the original. The door lining is not damaged, will see what Handy Andy says.

Norman_Castle

silvercar said:

Norman_Castle said:

The wood behind the top hinge has split along the grain. This often happens if doors are opened too wide forcing them against the architrave. If the frame is split fixings would keep coming loose.

Is the wood behind the bottom hinge a previous repair? There seems to be a gap along the bottom. The frame should continue to the floor.

If the door needs to be fully opened parliament hinges would prevent this happening again.

The door is never opened more than about 120 degrees due to furniture positions.

Previous owners? In an 80+ year old house you don't know how the door has been used. Did you fit the rawlplugs or were they someone elses attempt to repair the failed fixing? The top hinge fixing is repairable by gluing the split and adding screws either through or under the architrave. Remove the plugs and matches before doing this, Once the split is repaired drill the holes to fit dowels.

The gap at the bottom is/was behind the hinge which suggests a previous repair. A gap where the frame meets the floor shouldn't make a difference as the frame is fixed to the wall.

All my internal doors are heavy fire doors and fitted with two four inch hinges. They've been problem free for decades. If the fixings are sound on your other doors I wouldn't worry about them.

silvercar

Norman_Castle said:

silvercar said:

Norman_Castle said:

The wood behind the top hinge has split along the grain. This often happens if doors are opened too wide forcing them against the architrave. If the frame is split fixings would keep coming loose.

Is the wood behind the bottom hinge a previous repair? There seems to be a gap along the bottom. The frame should continue to the floor.

If the door needs to be fully opened parliament hinges would prevent this happening again.

The door is never opened more than about 120 degrees due to furniture positions.

Previous owners? Did you fit the rawlplugs or were they someone elses attempt to repair the failed fixing? The top hinge fixing is repairable by gluing the split and adding screws either through or under the architrave. Remove the plugs and matches before doing this, Once the split is repaired drill the holes to fit dowels.

The previous owners had a different door, probably lighter. Rawl plugs were probably fitted by them in the deep and distant past. The rawlplugs weren't used to hold up this door, they just seem to be deeply set into the wood. The actual holes for the screws are next to the plugs. It is the top hinge that always had the loose screws, the bottom one was always fine, I guess that is why it has sustained the most damage, where as the top one just came out keeping the screws with it. 

travis-powers

silvercar said:

Norman_Castle said:

silvercar said:

Norman_Castle said:

The wood behind the top hinge has split along the grain. This often happens if doors are opened too wide forcing them against the architrave. If the frame is split fixings would keep coming loose.

Is the wood behind the bottom hinge a previous repair? There seems to be a gap along the bottom. The frame should continue to the floor.

If the door needs to be fully opened parliament hinges would prevent this happening again.

The door is never opened more than about 120 degrees due to furniture positions.

Previous owners? Did you fit the rawlplugs or were they someone elses attempt to repair the failed fixing? The top hinge fixing is repairable by gluing the split and adding screws either through or under the architrave. Remove the plugs and matches before doing this, Once the split is repaired drill the holes to fit dowels.

The previous owners had a different door, probably lighter. Rawl plugs were probably fitted by them in the deep and distant past. The rawlplugs weren't used to hold up this door, they just seem to be deeply set into the wood. The actual holes for the screws are next to the plugs. It is the top hinge that always had the loose screws, the bottom one was always fine, I guess that is why it has sustained the most damage, where as the top one just came out keeping the screws with it. 

The top hinge holds all the weight and does all the work the bottom hinge just stop the door from flapping.
 In all my working life I have never seen a door fall off like this!
 I’ve had hinges where one screw has rounded out and it’s easier for me to drill out the head then use nippers to unscrew the thread as I couldn’t use enough force to pull the screw out.
  So if the door wasn’t binding and you would feel it, it must be the lining.
The fact that wall plugs was used by previous owners for lightweight doors is showing evidence that this has been a problem of the past.

Norman_Castle

silvercar said:

Norman_Castle said:

silvercar said:

Norman_Castle said:

The wood behind the top hinge has split along the grain. This often happens if doors are opened too wide forcing them against the architrave. If the frame is split fixings would keep coming loose.

Is the wood behind the bottom hinge a previous repair? There seems to be a gap along the bottom. The frame should continue to the floor.

If the door needs to be fully opened parliament hinges would prevent this happening again.

The door is never opened more than about 120 degrees due to furniture positions.

Previous owners? Did you fit the rawlplugs or were they someone elses attempt to repair the failed fixing? The top hinge fixing is repairable by gluing the split and adding screws either through or under the architrave. Remove the plugs and matches before doing this, Once the split is repaired drill the holes to fit dowels.

  The actual holes for the screws are next to the plugs.

All of the holes are either in or right next to the splits in the wood. These would never be a good place to fit a screw without repairing the split and holes first.

Bendy_House

silvercar said:

travis-powers said:

Firstly I hope no one was hurt!
 The site doesn’t give a weight but to pull out the screws from the bottom hinge takes substantial force!
 A door lining is around 32mm thick and 1930s timber was a higher quality, I wonder if this doorway was added at a later date?
 Personally as it would take some time to splice in new timber I would consider replacing the lining with a new one, this gives the opportunity to get the door hung perfectly, I would also fit a middle hinge and consider doing the same to the other doors.
 

No-one was hurt. No one in the room when it happened. Which was weird as no one had touched the door for hours.

None of the other doors - and there are 5 more - have had problems, though this one is used most frequently. Really think that the doorway is the original. The door lining is not damaged, will see what Handy Andy says.

Yes, most likely the frame is original.

All that damage has almost certainly been caused by the previous repairs simply being ineffectual. But, it's fully rescueable.

ASK the handyman how he'll fix it - not as an 'inquisition', but out of 'interest', "Because it's clear there's been lots of bodges, and I really want it sorted permanently - I can't have the door falling off again...". Add that, for such a heavy door, you'd like a third hinge. (On that note, there's a fair chance they'll need to get three new hinges so that they are exactly the same. Worth going 'quality', with bearings).

Any concerns about his plan, come back. Please report back anyway!

silvercar

All fixed. The current screws were only 1". He's now replaced them with 2" screws. He checked the frame was deep enough solid wood to take them. 

travis-powers

Impressive response time!
 It’s hard to give advice with just pictures and words hopefully this will be the end of it!