Neighbours gutters

Section62

DanDare999 said:

Section62 said:

So you've actually come across that specific term. Interesting that nobody can evidence it. 

Yes, regularly.  But as I said, this is in England and things may be different elsewhere in the UK.

Some stuff can't be evidenced without reference to generic sources like a standard dictionary, or a legal textbook.

Referencing the first in this conversation could potentially be viewed as being unfriendly, the latter is what you'd need a lawyer to do for you, unless you opted to buy the book(s) yourself.

Edit: Typo

Section62

Bendy_House said:

Section62 said:

gorbalsgerry said:

Section62 said:

The gutting has been changed substantially as the downspout was never there and they have also changed direction of their gutters. The photo is of two houses with her roof being about a foot and a half above mine. I managed to access photos from Google earth to prove that the changes had taken place especially the downspout. 

Gerry, could you please confirm if this is (the rear of) your house, as seen on streetview in 2009?  I think  it is based on comparing the 2022 streetview image with your pictures, but want to check before commenting further as there's no point if I've got the wrong property.

Gulp - forensic doesn't even begin :-O

Just one of the things an expensive lawyer would do before writing any letters (or advising the client to take direct action themselves).....

...if I've got the right property that is.

DRP

Bendy_House said:

Section62 said:

gorbalsgerry said:

Section62 said:

The gutting has been changed substantially as the downspout was never there and they have also changed direction of their gutters. The photo is of two houses with her roof being about a foot and a half above mine. I managed to access photos from Google earth to prove that the changes had taken place especially the downspout. 

Gerry, could you please confirm if this is (the rear of) your house, as seen on streetview in 2009?  I think  it is based on comparing the 2022 streetview image with your pictures, but want to check before commenting further as there's no point if I've got the wrong property.

Gulp - forensic doesn't even begin :-O

Well that's a cat/pigeons interaction, if i am interpreting it correctly....

gorbalsgerry

Section62 said:

gorbalsgerry said:

Section62 said:

The gutting has been changed substantially as the downspout was never there and they have also changed direction of their gutters. The photo is of two houses with her roof being about a foot and a half above mine. I managed to access photos from Google earth to prove that the changes had taken place especially the downspout. 

Gerry, could you please confirm if this is (the rear of) your house, as seen on streetview in 2009?  I think  it is based on comparing the 2022 streetview image with your pictures, but want to check before commenting further as there's no point if I've got the wrong property.

Yes section62 that's the back of my property. Can I ask where you got that phot. I've tried for weeks to get one that wasn't so fuzzy 

Section62

gorbalsgerry said:

Section62 said:

gorbalsgerry said:

Section62 said:

The gutting has been changed substantially as the downspout was never there and they have also changed direction of their gutters. The photo is of two houses with her roof being about a foot and a half above mine. I managed to access photos from Google earth to prove that the changes had taken place especially the downspout. 

Gerry, could you please confirm if this is (the rear of) your house, as seen on streetview in 2009?  I think  it is based on comparing the 2022 streetview image with your pictures, but want to check before commenting further as there's no point if I've got the wrong property.

Yes section62 that's the back of my property. Can I ask where you got that phot. I've tried for weeks to get one that wasn't so fuzzy 

Via google maps (website version), switching to streetview (moving the 'yellow man' to the right location), then selecting the August 2009 version from the dropdown menu towards the left of the screen. (There's also a May 2012 version as well, but looks more or less the same).

The problem here is that the neighbour's gutter downpipe (at the rear) clearly discharged into your gutter in 2009 (and 2012), and for some unknown length of time before and after those dates.

From a legal perspective, there are really two issues here.  One is whether the neighbour has a right to discharge into your gutter, the second is whether the current arrangement is suitable/adequate for this purpose.

Looking at other nearby properties, it seems the 'standard' method of dealing with this step in roofline was for the higher property to have a downpipe to the ground, with the lower property's gutter being connected to that downpipe via a branch connection.  Like this -

Looking very closely at the 2009 streetview image I posted, there is a faint vertical line in the paintwork of the neighbour's house in a position where it could be possible a downpipe once existed.  If so, the question is when was that downpipe removed and both your and their gutters reconfigured?

On the other hand, some of the other neighbouring properties have no connection across a step in the roofline like this one.  Each gutter starts at the 'step' and flows away from that point.

Ultimately, you may need to rely on what it says in your deeds about the guttering to be able to take any action regarding the right to discharge - and the problem with that would be proving what the original arrangement was, and whether the changes (if any) were done with some kind of authority. (e.g. if the council made the change(s) while either of the properties were still in their ownership).

To summarise, I think your effort may be better employed on getting the the arrangement adapted to stop the splashing/overflow, rather than making the neighbour redirect their gutter/downpipe completely.  It should go without saying that the advice earlier in the thread to take direct action yourself shouldn't be followed, particularly in light of evidence that the neighbour's discharge into your gutter (at the rear) has been established for some time.

The situation at the front is even less clear.  The rightmove image is not clear enough to see what is going on, and it could be the case that there was a downpipe (e.g. the same as the rear) but had fallen off or something at the time the picture was taken.  Unfortunately it isn't likely to stand up as conclusive evidence supporting your claim.  The lack of streetview images at the front of your house doesn't help either.

Bendy_House

Section62 said:

Bendy_House said:

Section62 said:

gorbalsgerry said:

Section62 said:

The gutting has been changed substantially as the downspout was never there and they have also changed direction of their gutters. The photo is of two houses with her roof being about a foot and a half above mine. I managed to access photos from Google earth to prove that the changes had taken place especially the downspout. 

Gerry, could you please confirm if this is (the rear of) your house, as seen on streetview in 2009?  I think  it is based on comparing the 2022 streetview image with your pictures, but want to check before commenting further as there's no point if I've got the wrong property.

Gulp - forensic doesn't even begin :-O

Just one of the things an expensive lawyer would do before writing any letters (or advising the client to take direct action themselves).....

...if I've got the right property that is.

That's very cool, but beyond the remit of most folk giving general advice.

As in almost all cases on forums like this, advice is based on the info provided by the poster.

As I said, very cool that you often take that further :-)

gorbalsgerry

Section62 said:

gorbalsgerry said:

Section62 said:

gorbalsgerry said:

Section62 said:

The gutting has been changed substantially as the downspout was never there and they have also changed direction of their gutters. The photo is of two houses with her roof being about a foot and a half above mine. I managed to access photos from Google earth to prove that the changes had taken place especially the downspout. 

Gerry, could you please confirm if this is (the rear of) your house, as seen on streetview in 2009?  I think  it is based on comparing the 2022 streetview image with your pictures, but want to check before commenting further as there's no point if I've got the wrong property.

Yes section62 that's the back of my property. Can I ask where you got that phot. I've tried for weeks to get one that wasn't so fuzzy 

Via google maps (website version), switching to streetview (moving the 'yellow man' to the right location), then selecting the August 2009 version from the dropdown menu towards the left of the screen. (There's also a May 2012 version as well, but looks more or less the same).

The problem here is that the neighbour's gutter downpipe (at the rear) clearly discharged into your gutter in 2009 (and 2012), and for some unknown length of time before and after those dates.

From a legal perspective, there are really two issues here.  One is whether the neighbour has a right to discharge into your gutter, the second is whether the current arrangement is suitable/adequate for this purpose.

Looking at other nearby properties, it seems the 'standard' method of dealing with this step in roofline was for the higher property to have a downpipe to the ground, with the lower property's gutter being connected to that downpipe via a branch connection.  Like this -

Looking very closely at the 2009 streetview image I posted, there is a faint vertical line in the paintwork of the neighbour's house in a position where it could be possible a downpipe once existed.  If so, the question is when was that downpipe removed and both your and their gutters reconfigured?

On the other hand, some of the other neighbouring properties have no connection across a step in the roofline like this one.  Each gutter starts at the 'step' and flows away from that point.

Ultimately, you may need to rely on what it says in your deeds about the guttering to be able to take any action regarding the right to discharge - and the problem with that would be proving what the original arrangement was, and whether the changes (if any) were done with some kind of authority. (e.g. if the council made the change(s) while either of the properties were still in their ownership).

To summarise, I think your effort may be better employed on getting the the arrangement adapted to stop the splashing/overflow, rather than making the neighbour redirect their gutter/downpipe completely.  It should go without saying that the advice earlier in the thread to take direct action yourself shouldn't be followed, particularly in light of evidence that the neighbour's discharge into your gutter (at the rear) has been established for some time.

The situation at the front is even less clear.  The rightmove image is not clear enough to see what is going on, and it could be the case that there was a downpipe (e.g. the same as the rear) but had fallen off or something at the time the picture was taken.  Unfortunately it isn't likely to stand up as conclusive evidence supporting your claim.  The lack of streetview images at the front of your house doesn't help either.

This photo is from January 2009 when we were going to sell the property and at the front and there is no sign of any downpipe at all. 

gorbalsgerry

Section62 said:

gorbalsgerry said:

Section62 said:

gorbalsgerry said:

Section62 said:

The gutting has been changed substantially as the downspout was never there and they have also changed direction of their gutters. The photo is of two houses with her roof being about a foot and a half above mine. I managed to access photos from Google earth to prove that the changes had taken place especially the downspout. 

Gerry, could you please confirm if this is (the rear of) your house, as seen on streetview in 2009?  I think  it is based on comparing the 2022 streetview image with your pictures, but want to check before commenting further as there's no point if I've got the wrong property.

Yes section62 that's the back of my property. Can I ask where you got that phot. I've tried for weeks to get one that wasn't so fuzzy 

Via google maps (website version), switching to streetview (moving the 'yellow man' to the right location), then selecting the August 2009 version from the dropdown menu towards the left of the screen. (There's also a May 2012 version as well, but looks more or less the same).

The problem here is that the neighbour's gutter downpipe (at the rear) clearly discharged into your gutter in 2009 (and 2012), and for some unknown length of time before and after those dates.

From a legal perspective, there are really two issues here.  One is whether the neighbour has a right to discharge into your gutter, the second is whether the current arrangement is suitable/adequate for this purpose.

Looking at other nearby properties, it seems the 'standard' method of dealing with this step in roofline was for the higher property to have a downpipe to the ground, with the lower property's gutter being connected to that downpipe via a branch connection.  Like this -

Looking very closely at the 2009 streetview image I posted, there is a faint vertical line in the paintwork of the neighbour's house in a position where it could be possible a downpipe once existed.  If so, the question is when was that downpipe removed and both your and their gutters reconfigured?

On the other hand, some of the other neighbouring properties have no connection across a step in the roofline like this one.  Each gutter starts at the 'step' and flows away from that point.

Ultimately, you may need to rely on what it says in your deeds about the guttering to be able to take any action regarding the right to discharge - and the problem with that would be proving what the original arrangement was, and whether the changes (if any) were done with some kind of authority. (e.g. if the council made the change(s) while either of the properties were still in their ownership).

To summarise, I think your effort may be better employed on getting the the arrangement adapted to stop the splashing/overflow, rather than making the neighbour redirect their gutter/downpipe completely.  It should go without saying that the advice earlier in the thread to take direct action yourself shouldn't be followed, particularly in light of evidence that the neighbour's discharge into your gutter (at the rear) has been established for some time.

The situation at the front is even less clear.  The rightmove image is not clear enough to see what is going on, and it could be the case that there was a downpipe (e.g. the same as the rear) but had fallen off or something at the time the picture was taken.  Unfortunately it isn't likely to stand up as conclusive evidence supporting your claim.  The lack of streetview images at the front of your house doesn't help either.

The deeds which I've only just received seem to say that all houses should use the same drainage system that was put in place at the time the houses were built. When we moved into the house there was a rear conservatory I'm wondering if the downpipe at the rear was removed at that point. I'm sorry if people in anyway think I've misled them in this forum. 

Section62

gorbalsgerry said:

This photo is from January 2009 when we were going to sell the property and at the front and there is no sign of any downpipe at all. 

The problem is that photo is so blurry it is impossible to say there shouldn't be a downpipe there.

gorbalsgerry said:

The deeds which I've only just received seem to say that all houses should use the same drainage system that was put in place at the time the houses were built. When we moved into the house there was a rear conservatory I'm wondering if the downpipe at the rear was removed at that point. I'm sorry if people in anyway think I've misled them in this forum. 

Don't worry about it, no need to apologise.  You clearly didn't mean to mislead anyone, and it is sometimes easy to get small details wrong.

As I said, proving when and how the downpipe changed (if it did) may be an impossible task.  Hence you need to assess whether it is worth going down that route, or instead accept the discharge but on the basis it shouldn't cause overflowing/splashing onto your property.

gorbalsgerry

Section62. I will still look into the rules regarding the discharge of water into my gutters even if its been a thing for a number of years. I'm certain I've seen on several occasions that your are unable to do this.