Neighbours gutters

gorbalsgerry

Bendy_House said:

From what we have been told, these two neighbours acted together to have their whole rainwater gutter replaced, with the presumed intention of outleting it in to Gerry's gutter. Presumably, therefore, it was installed with the gentle slope leading towards Gerry's house...

If that is the case, it'll need to be completely redone, so that it now empties towards the further-LH property, where the DP is located.

If this job was done by a pro, I'm amazed they thought Gerry's gutter could cope!

Gerry shouldn't do anything to physically alter what's there if (a) it means touching someone else's property (which it likely would), or (b) could, in itself, lead to damage to the other property (which some of the suggestions given here likely would).

A cunning neighbour - and they often are in such cases - could simply give Gerry notice of the damage likely to be caused by his action, and Gerry would be liable if damage were to subsequently occur. Unfair, yes. But right, because 'two wrongs' and a' tha'.

There is only one physical action that I can see being possible by Gerry which is unlikely to lead to 'harm' and therefore action - although it still would involve interfering with another person's property - and that would be to turn that short angled DP around so it aims outwards away from the house, and over the neighbour's lower roof. (Good chance the joints would need gaffa-taping together to stop them falling apart, of course...)

If the subsequent cascade lands harmlessly enough on their lower sloping roof - but it's hard to tell what's actually there - the neighbour would struggle to complain about this, but might still find it unsatisfactory enough to prompt them to find a proper solution. Gerry could justify that move by it preventing damage being caused to his property whilst the situation was being resolved properly - he didn't want to land his nice neighbour with a hefty repair bill - whilst it still shouldn't cause damage to anyone else's property either. I think it would be considered a 'reasonable' action, especially if Gerry were to paint it as move designed to prevent the situation from escalating. Ie, if actual damage were to occur to Gerry's house before this situation was resolved, that would clearly escalate the whole situation, adding complexities like financial claims. Gerry's actions would have prevented this = reasonable and justifiable.

Gerry should not do anything that he knows is likely to cause harm or damage or nuisance to his neighbour - that would be a statutory or even criminal offence. Unfair, yesish.

There are a few solutions to this, but non of them should involve Gerry. His rainwater system is completely separate, and is presumably shared with folk to his right?

Thats absolutely correct Bendy, there is only 2 downpipes for a row of 12 houses, 7 houses on the higher level feed into one DP and the 5 houses on the lower level feed into the other one. 2 Dps for 12 houses doesn't seem enough but it seems that's the way it's been since they were built in the 1960s. 

Bendy_House

gorbalsgerry said:

Bendy_House said:

From what we have been told, these two neighbours acted together to have their whole rainwater gutter replaced, with the presumed intention of outleting it in to Gerry's gutter. Presumably, therefore, it was installed with the gentle slope leading towards Gerry's house...

If that is the case, it'll need to be completely redone, so that it now empties towards the further-LH property, where the DP is located.

If this job was done by a pro, I'm amazed they thought Gerry's gutter could cope!

Gerry shouldn't do anything to physically alter what's there if (a) it means touching someone else's property (which it likely would), or (b) could, in itself, lead to damage to the other property (which some of the suggestions given here likely would).

A cunning neighbour - and they often are in such cases - could simply give Gerry notice of the damage likely to be caused by his action, and Gerry would be liable if damage were to subsequently occur. Unfair, yes. But right, because 'two wrongs' and a' tha'.

There is only one physical action that I can see being possible by Gerry which is unlikely to lead to 'harm' and therefore action - although it still would involve interfering with another person's property - and that would be to turn that short angled DP around so it aims outwards away from the house, and over the neighbour's lower roof. (Good chance the joints would need gaffa-taping together to stop them falling apart, of course...)

If the subsequent cascade lands harmlessly enough on their lower sloping roof - but it's hard to tell what's actually there - the neighbour would struggle to complain about this, but might still find it unsatisfactory enough to prompt them to find a proper solution. Gerry could justify that move by it preventing damage being caused to his property whilst the situation was being resolved properly - he didn't want to land his nice neighbour with a hefty repair bill - whilst it still shouldn't cause damage to anyone else's property either. I think it would be considered a 'reasonable' action, especially if Gerry were to paint it as move designed to prevent the situation from escalating. Ie, if actual damage were to occur to Gerry's house before this situation was resolved, that would clearly escalate the whole situation, adding complexities like financial claims. Gerry's actions would have prevented this = reasonable and justifiable.

Gerry should not do anything that he knows is likely to cause harm or damage or nuisance to his neighbour - that would be a statutory or even criminal offence. Unfair, yesish.

There are a few solutions to this, but non of them should involve Gerry. His rainwater system is completely separate, and is presumably shared with folk to his right?

Thats absolutely correct Bendy, there is only 2 downpipes for a row of 12 houses, 7 houses on the higher level feed into one DP and the 5 houses on the lower level feed into the other one. 2 Dps for 12 houses doesn't seem enough but it seems that's the way it's been since they were built in the 1960s. 

Two DPs only?! It might have been ok for many decades, but I doubt that will do into the future.

These 7 houses should really get together and try and work out the cheapest location for a second DP, and share the cost. The problem is, I understand these need to drain in to a soakaway, and that's the expensive part. There's a good chance the current ones drain in to the sewage system? If so, I think I know what I would be tempted to do - but it would be naughty.

gorbalsgerry

Bendy_House said:

gorbalsgerry said:

Bendy_House said:

From what we have been told, these two neighbours acted together to have their whole rainwater gutter replaced, with the presumed intention of outleting it in to Gerry's gutter. Presumably, therefore, it was installed with the gentle slope leading towards Gerry's house...

If that is the case, it'll need to be completely redone, so that it now empties towards the further-LH property, where the DP is located.

If this job was done by a pro, I'm amazed they thought Gerry's gutter could cope!

Gerry shouldn't do anything to physically alter what's there if (a) it means touching someone else's property (which it likely would), or (b) could, in itself, lead to damage to the other property (which some of the suggestions given here likely would).

A cunning neighbour - and they often are in such cases - could simply give Gerry notice of the damage likely to be caused by his action, and Gerry would be liable if damage were to subsequently occur. Unfair, yes. But right, because 'two wrongs' and a' tha'.

There is only one physical action that I can see being possible by Gerry which is unlikely to lead to 'harm' and therefore action - although it still would involve interfering with another person's property - and that would be to turn that short angled DP around so it aims outwards away from the house, and over the neighbour's lower roof. (Good chance the joints would need gaffa-taping together to stop them falling apart, of course...)

If the subsequent cascade lands harmlessly enough on their lower sloping roof - but it's hard to tell what's actually there - the neighbour would struggle to complain about this, but might still find it unsatisfactory enough to prompt them to find a proper solution. Gerry could justify that move by it preventing damage being caused to his property whilst the situation was being resolved properly - he didn't want to land his nice neighbour with a hefty repair bill - whilst it still shouldn't cause damage to anyone else's property either. I think it would be considered a 'reasonable' action, especially if Gerry were to paint it as move designed to prevent the situation from escalating. Ie, if actual damage were to occur to Gerry's house before this situation was resolved, that would clearly escalate the whole situation, adding complexities like financial claims. Gerry's actions would have prevented this = reasonable and justifiable.

Gerry should not do anything that he knows is likely to cause harm or damage or nuisance to his neighbour - that would be a statutory or even criminal offence. Unfair, yesish.

There are a few solutions to this, but non of them should involve Gerry. His rainwater system is completely separate, and is presumably shared with folk to his right?

Thats absolutely correct Bendy, there is only 2 downpipes for a row of 12 houses, 7 houses on the higher level feed into one DP and the 5 houses on the lower level feed into the other one. 2 Dps for 12 houses doesn't seem enough but it seems that's the way it's been since they were built in the 1960s. 

Two DPs only?! It might have been ok for many decades, but I doubt that will do into the future.

These 7 houses should really get together and try and work out the cheapest location for a second DP. The problem is, I understand these need to drain in to a soakaway, and that's the expensive part. There's a good chance the current ones drain in to the sewage system? If so, I think I know what I would be tempted to do - but it would be naughty.

How naughty?

Bendy_House

gorbalsgerry said:

Two DPs only?! It might have been ok for many decades, but I doubt that will do into the future.

These 7 houses should really get together and try and work out the cheapest location for a second DP. The problem is, I understand these need to drain in to a soakaway, and that's the expensive part. There's a good chance the current ones drain in to the sewage system? If so, I think I know what I would be tempted to do - but it would be naughty.

How naughty?

Well, if the existing ones are running into the main sewer, then it would be naughty - but relatively cheap and simple - to also direct any new pipes there too. In theory, no extra water would be coursing down via 2 pipes rather than one.

But I suspect it would breach regs, so I couldn't possibly recommend it.

Unless Skotland is different?

Norman_Castle

gorbalsgerry said:

Norman_Castle said:

DE_612183 said:

Norman_Castle said:

gorbalsgerry said:

DE_612183 said:

Gerry - have you spoken to your neighbour and asked them why they did what they did?
If it was done for them perhaps they didn't realise?
And ask them to get it changed back.

I have spoken to them and they asked for time to seek advice on the matter, that was a number of weeks ago and as yet I've beard nothing. I don't want to take matters into own hands and remove the pipe, but I wonder if I'm within my right to put a cap on the end of both downspout front and back of my house in the meantime to stop anymore water going into my gutters and causing further damage to my property. 

Capping their pipe should speed up their response. They are either allowed to do this or they are not. When they prove its acceptable they can do it. Until then they can live with the problem.

I'd start by removing the end cap from your gutter to see if the water flows back to them.

If you capped their end pipe - would that not just make the water build up in their gutter and then overflow anyway?

Yes, but hopefully not onto the ops property.

OP is there the option to extend her new downpipes to ground level or to a suitable drain which is what she should have done rather than presume she can feed into your gutters?

From what I believe now she/they enquired about a downpipe and it was too expensive so it looks like they took the easier and cheaper option and landed me with the problem. 

So it is an option and is clearly what they need to do. Explain to them their or their roofers solution does not work as your gutter cannot carry the extra water. Suggest you will be claiming the cost of their water flowing onto your property and the ongoing damage it is causing. Also suggest paying to clear their neighbours gutter would have been even cheaper.

The gutter as it was worked for decades, it needs maintenance, not changing.

DE_612183

Of course you collect all this rain water and sell it to the drought stricken areas in england ( I know not helpful! )

DRP

Norman_Castle said:

gorbalsgerry said:

Norman_Castle said:

DE_612183 said:

Norman_Castle said:

gorbalsgerry said:

DE_612183 said:

Gerry - have you spoken to your neighbour and asked them why they did what they did?
If it was done for them perhaps they didn't realise?
And ask them to get it changed back.

I have spoken to them and they asked for time to seek advice on the matter, that was a number of weeks ago and as yet I've beard nothing. I don't want to take matters into own hands and remove the pipe, but I wonder if I'm within my right to put a cap on the end of both downspout front and back of my house in the meantime to stop anymore water going into my gutters and causing further damage to my property. 

So it is an option and is clearly what they need to do. Explain to them their or their roofers solution does not work as your gutter cannot carry the extra water. Suggest you will be claiming the cost of their water flowing onto your property and the ongoing damage it is causing. Also suggest paying to clear their neighbours gutter would have been even cheaper.

The gutter as it was worked for decades, it needs maintenance, not changing.

Lots of good advice on this thread.

I can't believe that there is water coming inside and damaging your property and you have not hit the NUKE button! You have more patience than me

Whatever you do, it needs to happen right now - the seasons are changing and things are going to get worse. It is definitely ultimatum time. 

gorbalsgerry

DRP said:

Norman_Castle said:

gorbalsgerry said:

Norman_Castle said:

DE_612183 said:

Norman_Castle said:

gorbalsgerry said:

DE_612183 said:

Gerry - have you spoken to your neighbour and asked them why they did what they did?
If it was done for them perhaps they didn't realise?
And ask them to get it changed back.

I have spoken to them and they asked for time to seek advice on the matter, that was a number of weeks ago and as yet I've beard nothing. I don't want to take matters into own hands and remove the pipe, but I wonder if I'm within my right to put a cap on the end of both downspout front and back of my house in the meantime to stop anymore water going into my gutters and causing further damage to my property. 

So it is an option and is clearly what they need to do. Explain to them their or their roofers solution does not work as your gutter cannot carry the extra water. Suggest you will be claiming the cost of their water flowing onto your property and the ongoing damage it is causing. Also suggest paying to clear their neighbours gutter would have been even cheaper.

The gutter as it was worked for decades, it needs maintenance, not changing.

Lots of good advice on this thread.

I can't believe that there is water coming inside and damaging your property and you have not hit the NUKE button! You have more patience than me

Whatever you do, it needs to happen right now - the seasons are changing and things are going to get worse. It is definitely ultimatum time. 

I'm just trying to do things the right way even though the neighbours haven't. 

DRP

gorbalsgerry said:

DRP said:

Norman_Castle said:

gorbalsgerry said:

Norman_Castle said:

DE_612183 said:

Norman_Castle said:

gorbalsgerry said:

DE_612183 said:

Gerry - have you spoken to your neighbour and asked them why they did what they did?
If it was done for them perhaps they didn't realise?
And ask them to get it changed back.

I have spoken to them and they asked for time to seek advice on the matter, that was a number of weeks ago and as yet I've beard nothing. I don't want to take matters into own hands and remove the pipe, but I wonder if I'm within my right to put a cap on the end of both downspout front and back of my house in the meantime to stop anymore water going into my gutters and causing further damage to my property. 

So it is an option and is clearly what they need to do. Explain to them their or their roofers solution does not work as your gutter cannot carry the extra water. Suggest you will be claiming the cost of their water flowing onto your property and the ongoing damage it is causing. Also suggest paying to clear their neighbours gutter would have been even cheaper.

The gutter as it was worked for decades, it needs maintenance, not changing.

Lots of good advice on this thread.

I can't believe that there is water coming inside and damaging your property and you have not hit the NUKE button! You have more patience than me

Whatever you do, it needs to happen right now - the seasons are changing and things are going to get worse. It is definitely ultimatum time. 

I'm just trying to do things the right way even though the neighbours haven't. 

Definitely. Just don't let them do any more damage to your house.

Bendy_House

I'm not sure actual damage/water penetration has occurred yet?

But, overflowing gutters almost always do cause issues, and in any case it's just 'wrong'!

Gerry, I think I would tackle this on the basis that the neighbours were looking for a solution, and perhaps 'innocently' thought, "What difference does it make - in this terrace, there's only one DP for 7 houses at this end, and only one per 5 houses on t'other - what does it matter if that is swapped 5 to 7 instead!"

The main issue why it's not acceptable is the way the whole content is sent down a focused short DP in to your gutter - just no way will that not cause literal issues. But even tho' there might be a solution involving running it in a more controlled way into 'your' set of 5 houses, this should be 100% off the table. For a start, I think there's a good chance that even your side will need to add/modify their shared system at some point, perhaps with deepflow guttering, or an additional or wider DP. Almost certainly, weather systems are going to become more extreme. So, if they moot any 'tweak' that still sends any water to 'your' side, say a categoric 'Non'. Explain that 5 houses to one DP is already at capacity, and will only become more so as weather systems likely deteriorate.

So, "I totally understand what it is you were trying to do, and I know you have problems with what you have on your side, and - tbh - I doubt that a single DP will be good enough in the future even if it's all kept cleaned. Sorry, but our 5 houses are only just coping as it is, and every time it rains water does now gush over the guttering because of the extra flow from your side. I don't like to do this, but I do need to put you on notice that damage will, almost certainly, be caused to my, and possibly my RH neighbour's, houses, and it will have to be paid for by you, as I have now told you that there is a problem - I really have no option. You do understand, don't you? I really hope you can sort this before any damage occurs..."

Don't be side-tracked by any discussion or argument, the "Oh, it only overflows once in a while!" or "You've only got 5 houses on your side - it ain't fair..." or "Who's going to pay to put it right?!" Just let them have their say, and repeat, "If it isn't put back the way it was, it will, almost certainly, cause damage. And you know this. So I will - sorry - have no option but to claim. And it will be successful. If water gets inside my house, you could easily be looking at £housands... You do understand, don't you?" Or, put it in the form of a question that you DO expect an answer to - repeat it if necessary! "You cannot expect me to let my house be damaged by the changes you have made to the guttering, and just accept it?!"

You can also suggest the correct path - they need to oblige the owner of the blocked gutter and/or DP to have it cleaned, but this should be a shared cost between 7 houses - they all benefit. If any are council owned, get on to them and tell them the difficult situation you are in, trying to get some folk to act. They will hopefully do the donkey work for your neighbs.

First move, I'd suggest - find out if any are council owned, and call them up.

I think I've asked - do you have LP on your house insurance? If not, add it on renewal - it's ideal for sorting out issues like this.