Neighbours gutters

Bendy_House

Gerry to insurance co: "Hi. I have this problem where my neighbour is diverted his rainwater into my gutter and is causing it to overflow - it will almost certainly cause damage to my property."

ItoG: "Have you spoken to them about this?"

GtoI: "Yes, I have - in writing - outlined what is they have done, why it was wrong to do so - also citing our deeds - what the result of their action is, and also put them on notice that they will be liable for any subsequent damage if they don't sort it."

ItoG: "Wow! That is brilliant! You must have had some grreeeaaat advice from a really cooool bloke! No worries, we'll sort this."

GtoI: "Fab!"

ItoG: "Can I ask what the situation is now?"

GtoI: "Oh, I've diverted the water back over their house - 'reckon I've caused £10k's worth so far - that'll bladdy teach 'em "

ItoG: sound of gentle weeping.

JC wrote that, not me. I'm too modest.

DanDare999

Bendy_House said:

Gerry to insurance co: "Hi. I have this problem where my neighbour is diverted his rainwater into my gutter and is causing it to overflow - it will almost certainly cause damage to my property."

ItoG: "Have you spoken to them about this?"

GtoI: "Yes, I have - in writing - outlined what is they have done, why it was wrong to do so - also citing our deeds - what the result of their action is, and also put them on notice that they will be liable for any subsequent damage if they don't sort it."

ItoG: "Wow! That is brilliant! You must have had some grreeeaaat advice from a really cooool bloke! No worries, we'll sort this."

GtoI: "Fab!"

ItoG: "Can I ask what the situation is now?"

GtoI: "Oh, I've diverted the water back over their house - 'reckon I've caused £10k's worth so far - that'll bladdy teach 'em "

ItoG: sound of gentle weeping.

JC wrote that, not me. I'm too modest.

How will they sort it, send a letter or advise the OP speaks to a solicitor?

I'll ask you again, should the OP not be limiting any/further damage to their home?

gorbalsgerry

Bendy and Dan, I totally understand both of your points of view. Yes to be clear this has now been going on 6 weeks with no resolution. I have approached the neighbour on 4 occasions and the goalposts keep being moved. I have twice had someone ready to come and remove the downspourt and the neighbour has said she is seeking her own advice. I feel that 6 weeks has been ample time for her to get advice but as yet she hasn't came back to me. I have now contacted the local council and accessed my title deeds which seem to indicate that all houses should have always kept to drainage system that was set up at the outset for their home. I have seen several things that indicate no one should be able to discharge water into my gutter through artifical means. I think I'm a good guy and always been a good neighbour and don't want to take issues into my own hands. The issue is also affecting the neighbour directly to the right of me. If I have no resolution in a few days I'll contact a solicitor.  

Bendy_House

Call your insurance co, Gerry.

Yup - that's been going on for too long.

Bendy_House

DanDare999 said:

Bendy_House said:

Gerry to insurance co: "Hi. I have this problem where my neighbour is diverted his rainwater into my gutter and is causing it to overflow - it will almost certainly cause damage to my property."

ItoG: "Have you spoken to them about this?"

GtoI: "Yes, I have - in writing - outlined what is they have done, why it was wrong to do so - also citing our deeds - what the result of their action is, and also put them on notice that they will be liable for any subsequent damage if they don't sort it."

ItoG: "Wow! That is brilliant! You must have had some grreeeaaat advice from a really cooool bloke! No worries, we'll sort this."

GtoI: "Fab!"

ItoG: "Can I ask what the situation is now?"

GtoI: "Oh, I've diverted the water back over their house - 'reckon I've caused £10k's worth so far - that'll bladdy teach 'em "

ItoG: sound of gentle weeping.

JC wrote that, not me. I'm too modest.

How will they sort it, send a letter or advise the OP speaks to a solicitor?

I'll ask you again, should the OP not be limiting any/further damage to their home?

Not if it risks causing damage to the neighbour's home as a result.

Anything Gerry can reasonably do to mitigate damage is fine, but he shouldn't be climbing ladders, or asking anyone else to do so,  make any modifications that could lead to damage to another person's property. He shouldn't be doing this, nor should he be expected to.

It would be a completely different situation if, say, the neighb's DP had popped out of place causing water to come on to G's property, and the neighb - when approached about it - couldn't be arrissed to fix it. If all G had to do was to pop the pipe back into place from ground level - at no risk to himself - it would likely be deemed unreasonable if he didn't do so. I wouldn't, in such a scenario, being suggesting G just PONs and leaves it, even tho' the neighb is 'responsible' for it. But, if that pipe was clearly going to pop out again in time without being properly fixed in place, guess what he should do? Yes. PON.

Yes, it's 'unfair' to some degree, but folk shouldn't be taking things into their own hands, when there are correct ways of doing this. It will as likely lead to an escalation of the situation, as it would a resolution - it will certainly muddy the waters, fnurrr. If there is any risk of a 'dispute' escalating or not being resolved without legalities, my advice would be to keep your nose scrupulously clean. And that includes in the manner you communicate - just everything.

Since we are seemingly in the 'asking you again' situation, what would happen if you cap or divert the neighbour's gutter?

(I'm getting the feeling I'm answering all your Qs, but you aren't reciprocating. Your first name isn't Boris by any chance?)

DanDare999

Section62 said:

DanDare999 said:

Bendy_House said:

So other than your made up put them on notice letter....

It isn't "made up".

Writing to a neighbour to place them 'on notice' is (at least in England) a recognised early step in what may become a legal dispute.  Formalising the issue in the form of a letter means there is evidence that the neighbour was aware (on a specific date) they were causing a problem and what the OP wanted done as a result.  The letter could subsequently be used as part of the evidence to show that the OP had sought to resolve the issue by negotiation/discussion, rather than rushing to law.

Courts (in England) expect people to attempt to resolve issues between themselves (except where there are reasons not to, e.g. violence is a factor) and placing the neighbour 'on notice' is a way of doing this in a more formal manner, a step (or more) before issuing a letter before action.

The situation in Scotland might be different, but I can't comment on that.

The alternative of taking direct action is risky.  In the OP's case it appears that the relevant part of the gutter downpipe which would need to be removed/modified is wholly on the neighbour's property.  Intentional damage to the neighbour's property could - in certain circumstances - be regarded as criminal damage.  At the very least, if the issue gets to court in a civil case, the 'direct action' may lead a judge (/sheriff?) to make adverse assumptions about the motives/temperament of the person involved.

Moreover, it appears the gutter in question is above some kind of conservatory/porch on the OP's property, which would make access to modify the guttering himself difficult/dangerous.  I wouldn't recommend that anyone attempted to work at height to do something like this, without me first understanding what risks might be involved in doing so.  People who have advised the OP to just take matters into his own hands probably haven't given much thought to the practicality/safety of doing so, especially in the context of a neighbour dispute where tempers may be frayed and judgement less sound.

Finally, we should not ignore the possibility that the OP is mistaken and that the method of drainage has not substantially changed.  If he removes the neighbour's downpipe when they have an established/legal right to discharge into his gutter then Gerry could be facing potentially serious consequences.  Gerry says he has photos (of the original arrangement) to prove it.  It might be useful if one of those was shared with us, so everybody has a better understanding of what is going on here.

Show me something to back up that letter, specifically with the term "on notice".

DanDare999

Bendy_House said:

DanDare999 said:

Bendy_House said:

Gerry to insurance co: "Hi. I have this problem where my neighbour is diverted his rainwater into my gutter and is causing it to overflow - it will almost certainly cause damage to my property."

ItoG: "Have you spoken to them about this?"

GtoI: "Yes, I have - in writing - outlined what is they have done, why it was wrong to do so - also citing our deeds - what the result of their action is, and also put them on notice that they will be liable for any subsequent damage if they don't sort it."

ItoG: "Wow! That is brilliant! You must have had some grreeeaaat advice from a really cooool bloke! No worries, we'll sort this."

GtoI: "Fab!"

ItoG: "Can I ask what the situation is now?"

GtoI: "Oh, I've diverted the water back over their house - 'reckon I've caused £10k's worth so far - that'll bladdy teach 'em "

ItoG: sound of gentle weeping.

JC wrote that, not me. I'm too modest.

How will they sort it, send a letter or advise the OP speaks to a solicitor?

I'll ask you again, should the OP not be limiting any/further damage to their home?

Not if it risks causing damage to the neighbour's home as a result.

Anything Gerry can reasonably do to mitigate damage is fine, but he shouldn't be climbing ladders, or asking anyone else to do so,  make any modifications that could lead to damage to another person's property. He shouldn't be doing this, nor should he be expected to.

It would be a completely different situation if, say, the neighb's DP had popped out of place causing water to come on to G's property, and the neighb - when approached about it - couldn't be arrissed to fix it. If all G had to do was to pop the pipe back into place from ground level - at no risk to himself - it would likely be deemed unreasonable if he didn't do so. I wouldn't, in such a scenario, being suggesting G just PONs and leaves it, even tho' the neighb is 'responsible' for it. But, if that pipe was clearly going to pop out again in time without being properly fixed in place, guess what he should do? Yes. PON.

Yes, it's 'unfair' to some degree, but folk shouldn't be taking things into their own hands, when there are correct ways of doing this. It will as likely lead to an escalation of the situation, as it would a resolution - it will certainly muddy the waters, fnurrr. If there is any risk of a 'dispute' escalating or not being resolved without legalities, my advice would be to keep your nose scrupulously clean. And that includes in the manner you communicate - just everything.

Since we are seemingly in the 'asking you again' situation, what would happen if you cap or divert the neighbour's gutter?

(I'm getting the feeling I'm answering all your Qs, but you aren't reciprocating. Your first name isn't Boris by any chance?)

At £7 a length for down pipe diverting into the middle of the neighbours garden will sort the matter. Six weeks is too long but your suggestion may see it sorted by next summer. 

gorbalsgerry

Section62 said:

DanDare999 said:

Bendy_House said:

So other than your made up put them on notice letter....

It isn't "made up".

Writing to a neighbour to place them 'on notice' is (at least in England) a recognised early step in what may become a legal dispute.  Formalising the issue in the form of a letter means there is evidence that the neighbour was aware (on a specific date) they were causing a problem and what the OP wanted done as a result.  The letter could subsequently be used as part of the evidence to show that the OP had sought to resolve the issue by negotiation/discussion, rather than rushing to law.

Courts (in England) expect people to attempt to resolve issues between themselves (except where there are reasons not to, e.g. violence is a factor) and placing the neighbour 'on notice' is a way of doing this in a more formal manner, a step (or more) before issuing a letter before action.

The situation in Scotland might be different, but I can't comment on that.

The alternative of taking direct action is risky.  In the OP's case it appears that the relevant part of the gutter downpipe which would need to be removed/modified is wholly on the neighbour's property.  Intentional damage to the neighbour's property could - in certain circumstances - be regarded as criminal damage.  At the very least, if the issue gets to court in a civil case, the 'direct action' may lead a judge (/sheriff?) to make adverse assumptions about the motives/temperament of the person involved.

Moreover, it appears the gutter in question is above some kind of conservatory/porch on the OP's property, which would make access to modify the guttering himself difficult/dangerous.  I wouldn't recommend that anyone attempted to work at height to do something like this, without me first understanding what risks might be involved in doing so.  People who have advised the OP to just take matters into his own hands probably haven't given much thought to the practicality/safety of doing so, especially in the context of a neighbour dispute where tempers may be frayed and judgement less sound.

Finally, we should not ignore the possibility that the OP is mistaken and that the method of drainage has not substantially changed.  If he removes the neighbour's downpipe when they have an established/legal right to discharge into his gutter then Gerry could be facing potentially serious consequences.  Gerry says he has photos (of the original arrangement) to prove it.  It might be useful if one of those was shared with us, so everybody has a better understanding of what is going on here.

The gutting has been changed substantially as the downspout was never there and they have also changed direction of their gutters. The photo is of two houses with her roof being about a foot and a half above mine. I managed to access photos from Google earth to prove that the changes had taken place especially the downspout. 

DanDare999

gorbalsgerry said:

Bendy and Dan, I totally understand both of your points of view. Yes to be clear this has now been going on 6 weeks with no resolution. I have approached the neighbour on 4 occasions and the goalposts keep being moved. I have twice had someone ready to come and remove the downspourt and the neighbour has said she is seeking her own advice. I feel that 6 weeks has been ample time for her to get advice but as yet she hasn't came back to me. I have now contacted the local council and accessed my title deeds which seem to indicate that all houses should have always kept to drainage system that was set up at the outset for their home. I have seen several things that indicate no one should be able to discharge water into my gutter through artifical means. I think I'm a good guy and always been a good neighbour and don't want to take issues into my own hands. The issue is also affecting the neighbour directly to the right of me. If I have no resolution in a few days I'll contact a solicitor.  

Tell them if it's not sorted by next Friday you'll be diverting the pipe onto their property.

gorbalsgerry

This  is the back and front ohotos i have i