VCS Fluttering Ticket / Valid Permit - We won...

Coupon-mad · 12 February 2023 at 5:06PM

You are on the right track with your points of defence.

A lack of signage on entry can be a defence point but in your case, more compelling is the fact there is no 'legitimate interest' (the main thing that saved the ParkingEye charge in the Supreme Court case from being struck out as an unenforceable penalty)

There's no overriding legitimate interest in charging or pursuing you because VCS knew there was a valid permit visible on the day, and knew from your appeal that the PCN was unjustified and should have been cancelled.

Lagroid · 23 February 2023 at 3:43PM

Le_Kirk said:

If that is a defence, it is way too long. Keep it to short punchy legal/technical arguments and save the narrative for the witness statement stage. Your statement of truth conversely, is too short; search for the correct one. Are you basing your defence on the template?

Thanks for your feedback and taking the time to read. I have now received the Claim Form and will adapt my defence, and post a final draft here. To answer your question, I was using various defence templates throughout the forum, some examples of previous 'fluttering ticket' defences.

Is there a negative impact to be thorough in my defence? I was under the impression that I'd adapt #3 from the March template linked to the Newbies thread to include a brief summary of my defence points, and then in my witness statement supply evidence and expand on those points?

Thank you

KeithP · 23 February 2023 at 3:50PM

Lagroid said:
I have now received the Claim Form...

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

Lagroid · 23 February 2023 at 3:51PM

KeithP said:

Lagroid said:
I have now received the Claim Form...
What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

It was the 21st of Feb. I will perform the AoS steps 5 days after that date. I think that was the advice in the Newbies thread.

KeithP · 23 February 2023 at 3:58PM

Lagroid said:

KeithP said:

Lagroid said:
I have now received the Claim Form...
What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

It was the 21st of Feb. I will perform the AoS steps 5 days after that date. I think that was the advice in the Newbies thread.

With a Claim Issue Date of 21st February, you have until Monday 13th March to file an Acknowledgment of Service. Do not file an Acknowledgment of Service before 25th February, but otherwise there is nothing to be gained by delaying it.

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 27th March 2023 to file your Defence.

That's over four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Lagroid · 23 February 2023 at 4:07PM

KeithP said:

Lagroid said:

KeithP said:

Lagroid said:
I have now received the Claim Form...
What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

It was the 21st of Feb. I will perform the AoS steps 5 days after that date. I think that was the advice in the Newbies thread.

With a Claim Issue Date of 21st February, you have until Monday 13th March to file an Acknowledgment of Service. Do not file an Acknowledgment of Service before 25th February, but otherwise there is nothing to be gained by delaying it.
To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 27th March 2023 to file your Defence.
That's over four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.
To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.
Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Thanks Keith, I appreciate the guidance. Couple of questions:

1 - I won't file an AoS before the 25th, but with the time I have after that before the 13th March, I'm trying to time this 'right'. I'm actually out of the country on Friday 24th April - Sunday 26th April and also away for 3 weeks from the 24th June. I'm trying to time my filing to not coincide with these dates at court. So my question, do you know roughly the timeline from a Claim Form being issues and responding?
2 - I'm looking at the defence template now, and copying the points relevant to my case over. In regards to section 3 (on the template) where it states: "[EXPLAIN IN YOUR OWN WORDS...but please notice that defences are written in the THIRD person as 'the Defendant', not 'I did this' nor 'my/me']." - Do you know if there's a problem with me being thorough? Can I mention all of the points I posted earlier in my first draft AND adapt to include Coupons recommendation?

Thanks,

Not_A_Hope · 23 February 2023 at 4:18PM

1. Each court has its own backlog and it will probably be months before a hearing. However you will formally be able to tell the court any dates you are not available.

2. The defence is supposed to be short punchy legal arguments. You can explain in detail in your witness statement which comes later. Suggest you draft your sections that are to be inserted into the template for comment.

KeithP · 23 February 2023 at 4:20PM

Lagroid said:

KeithP said:

Lagroid said:

KeithP said:

Lagroid said:
I have now received the Claim Form...
What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

It was the 21st of Feb. I will perform the AoS steps 5 days after that date. I think that was the advice in the Newbies thread.

With a Claim Issue Date of 21st February, you have until Monday 13th March to file an Acknowledgment of Service. Do not file an Acknowledgment of Service before 25th February, but otherwise there is nothing to be gained by delaying it.
To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 27th March 2023 to file your Defence.
That's over four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.
To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.
Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Thanks Keith, I appreciate the guidance. Couple of questions:

1 - I won't file an AoS before the 25th, but with the time I have after that before the 13th March, I'm trying to time this 'right'. I'm actually out of the country on Friday 24th April - Sunday 26th April and also away for 3 weeks from the 24th June. I'm trying to time my filing to not coincide with these dates at court. So my question, do you know roughly the timeline from a Claim Form being issues and responding?

File a Defence anytime before the deadline I have given. File it when you are ready.

After that you will be asked to complete a Directions Questionnaire - a simple form giving you the opportunity to state the dates when you are not available for a hearing.

This is all explained in the second post of the NEWBIES thread.

Lagroid said:

KeithP said:

Lagroid said:

KeithP said:

Lagroid said:
I have now received the Claim Form...
What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

It was the 21st of Feb. I will perform the AoS steps 5 days after that date. I think that was the advice in the Newbies thread.

With a Claim Issue Date of 21st February, you have until Monday 13th March to file an Acknowledgment of Service. Do not file an Acknowledgment of Service before 25th February, but otherwise there is nothing to be gained by delaying it.
To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 27th March 2023 to file your Defence.
That's over four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.
To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.
Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

2 - I'm looking at the defence template now, and copying the points relevant to my case over. In regards to section 3 (on the template) where it states: "[EXPLAIN IN YOUR OWN WORDS...but please notice that defences are written in the THIRD person as 'the Defendant', not 'I did this' nor 'my/me']." - Do you know if there's a problem with me being thorough? Can I mention all of the points I posted earlier in my first draft AND adapt to include Coupons recommendation?

There is no problem with you being thorough in a Defence but your Defence is for legal argument.
Your Witness Statement is for a detailed explanation, with evidence, of what actually happened. I've not read your earlier Defence draft.

Lagroid · 23 February 2023 at 4:23PM

Thanks both. Missed the directions questionnaire part in the thread. Sorry for that.

I will take on board the advice on defence and keep it to the point. The crux of what I'm saying, and then copy in the other points from the template. Will post a final version here for review from the community. Cheers

Lagroid · 23 February 2023 at 5:37PM

Please find a copy of my second draft, which takes on feedback from the comments in this thread. Additional feedback welcome. (Won't be submitted before the recommended deadlines from Keith, just wanted to get this ready)