VCS Fluttering Ticket / Valid Permit - We won...

Coupon-mad

The danger is that VCS have a habit of saying they never received something, but your auto response proves that the contrary is true. Did you send a copy to yourself as well?

NOTE THE ABOVE.

This is what their rep will say.  So you MUST take with you to the hearing, proof that the email was sent.

If you want, also put a printed copy of the same WS bundle (just flung into a large envelope - not especially tidily, no paper clip, just a pile of paper, but with the envelope well sealed) and take it to your local Post Office in person tomorrow, and get a free CERTIFICATE OF POSTING* and take that to court, too.

You will have their rep squirming when you prove them liars when he/she trots out the standard line pretending they didn't get the WS from you.



* NOT 'signed for' post!
Think about it...not least because tomorrow is Friday.  Also for another pretty obvious reason.

KeithP

Lagroid said:

Apologies for all the questions, but quite an important one.

I’ve submitted my WS to the court and Claimant (VCS). VCS sent an auto reply email stating:

Please note that we do not accept service of documents by email. And that all documents need to be submitted by post. 

Is this binding? Or can I ignore?

checked my sent Mail box and I sent the DQ form to them this way, so not sure if it’s something to pay attention to or not

The fact that their 'computer' (for want of a better word) has sent you an automated reply is a positive indication that your email containing your Witness Statement has been received by the Claimant. Keep that reply.

It isn't your problem if VCS have a daft process that deletes stuff they would rather not have.

Lagroid

Thanks all, glad I asked now. I will print out my email sending the documents, and the auto reply email which was 2 minutes later. 

I will also do as Coupon suggests and chuck the documents in an envelope and get proof of sending at the post office. 

@Fruitcake - Yeah I used this email for the DQ Form. I can't find an auto response from that one though. Also, I have a 'Notice of change of legal representative' form where they change from ELMS Legal to VCS and state their address, but underneath the address it has this email that I used... which is the reason I used it.

Thanks for all the tips, I will cover all basis and preempt them claiming it never arrived  

KeithP

Lagroid said:

Thanks for all the tips, I will cover all basis and preempt them claiming it never arrived  

And just to add to my earlier point...

They would be very foolish to automatically delete stuff sent to that email address. They run the risk of throwing away things that they could use to their advantage - for example, a poorly written witness statement which gives away too much information.

So to summarise... they will read every WS and only deny receiving those that don't serve their purpose.

Lagroid

KeithP said:

Lagroid said:

Thanks for all the tips, I will cover all basis and preempt them claiming it never arrived  

And just to add to my earlier point...

They would be very foolish to automatically delete stuff sent to that email address. They run the risk of throwing away things that they could use to their advantage - for example, a poorly written witness statement which gives away too much information.

So to summarise... they will read every WS and only deny receiving those that don't serve their purpose.

Yeah makes sense.

printed all my proof of delivery and have a receipt showing proof of postage for 2nd class paper copies  

the lady in the post office was confused at first as she was going through all the options that involve tracking. I told her the reason I only need proof of postage and nothing more and she implied this sort of thing is common (with legal documents). Either way, she was very helpful, so I have all I need. 

Will update further if anything interesting happens before the new hearing date.

cheers all

Lagroid

Afternoon all,

I just wanted to drop in and provide an update. Just got back from my hearing and I'm happy to announce that we won and the case was dismissed. We were awarded £50 in costs, and I'll explain my day in court in more detail below...

ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST...

We arrived at 13:00 ahead of our 14:00 hearing and started going over my Witness Statement over and over so all the main points were fresh in my head.

At 13:45 the Claimant's legal representative (a freelancer) arrived and approached me to ask if we could discuss the case and possibly settle outside of court. I politely declined. 

The legal representative sat opposite me and explained that "he wouldn't settle either if it were him" and that we had a very strong case. I wasn't buying too much into it as I suspected he might just be trying to get me to put my guard down.

At 13:55 the usher called us into the room. I took a seat after greeting the judge. I can't remember her name sadly.

She started off by saying that she's took the time to read over my entire Witness Statement and there's a load of points to discuss, however, if the Claimant agrees we can focus on the main crux of the argument which was that the permit fell from the window and the Claimant believes this was a breach of contract. The Claimant agreed. The judge did say if we need to go beyond this point then the rest of the points in my Witness Statement would come into play.

The Judge allowed the claimant to ask me questions and he asked my routine that day. I explained I parked my vehicle, attached the permit to the window and then left my vehicle. He then asked why didn't I leave my permit attached 24/7, why did I remove it. I just said, because I wanted to. 

The Claimant then asked if I returned to my vehicle at all that day, and I said not until my shift had finished, which is when I noticed the PCN and found my permit had fallen from the window. 

The Claimant had no further questions.

The judge then asked me if I had any other points to raise in relation to ONLY the permit point. So I used my cheat sheet I put together from the night before and mentioned the case of Link Parking v mr H and how that judge had ruled that the ticket was unsuitable for purpose and the consumer can't be held accountable. I also referred her to the Consumer Rights Act which ratifies this point. She then asked me "So the Claimant supplied the housing?" I confirmed and then showed her the permit which I brought with me. (I didn't think she thought I had supplied my own permit housing at this point, so I'm glad I did focus on that case and the CRA).

After going through what she heard, the Claimant then argued that it defied common sense to keep removing and reattaching the permit each day, but she disagreed and said that's a matter of opinion and I can't make that assumption. The claimant then tried to argue that this removing of the permit is what caused the housing to become unsuitable, and again she disagreed that he was arguing from a point of 'engineering' and that wouldn't be accepted here as I'm a consumer.

The judge ruled in my favour and dismissed the case. She then rejected all costs at this point unless I disagreed. I argued my point of effort and time in preparing as well as my fixed witness costs. At this point the Claimant agreed with the fixed witness costs for a half day and they reached a sum of £50. 

Less than what I wanted but I wasn't expecting the case to be as tough as it was. Overall I'm delighted with the outcome and want to thank you all for your time and effort in helping me.

ANOTHER VCS ONE BITES THE DUST!

Grizebeck

Well done good report 

Coupon-mad

Well done!  Great result and report.

And we sincerely hope that you are au fait with the need to respond to the private parking draft Impact Assessment this month?

You want to help us change the law?

To be clear, we are nearly there; it's not a petition or some weak campaign, it's a final push on a law already passed, to cap the £PCN levels and ban the fake DRA fees.

The Government has a Call for Evidence open right now.

We are also wanting photos of unmanaged car parks and Asda/Tesco/Sainsburys £70 signs or Hospital £50 or £60 deterrents (or car parks with broken signs) near you, please.

All discussed and explained here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6463361/dluhc-private-parking-code-government-launches-call-for-evidence-discussion-thread/p6

Umkomaas

Very well done @Lagroid, thank you so much for your feedback via an excellent court report - our only way of knowing if our advice helps/works. You obviously prepared well, batted off the 'cross-examination' and won round the judge to your side. A great day for you, in sharp contrast to that of VCS. 

Did the advocate seek leave to appeal - that seems to be a standard response in VCS/Excel cases resulting in court defeat? Nothing to worry about, it's not going to happen in any case. 

Lagroid

Umkomaas said:

Very well done @Lagroid, thank you so much for your feedback via an excellent court report - our only way of knowing if our advice helps/works. You obviously prepared well, batted off the 'cross-examination' and won round the judge to your side. A great day for you, in sharp contrast to that of VCS. 

Did the advocate seek leave to appeal - that seems to be a standard response in VCS/Excel cases resulting in court defeat? Nothing to worry about, it's not going to happen in any case. 

I really appreciate it and honestly can't thank the community enough.

So she said the £50 had to be paid within 21 days which gives the Claimant plenty of time to counter, but the representative said "I'll take the Defendants bank details and it'll be paid almost instantly". Not sure if that means they won't appeal or not. Either way, we've had no payment yet  

I will report back if they do appeal though. Also I'll help out on the other thread @Coupon-mad - I'll go over my case and pull out all the relevant photos I can.

Thank you