Please can someone help me with regards to the Small Claims Court procedure?

Stuck_1963

I'm not missing the point, I did understand that.  Thank you for your input, I do appreciate it.  BTW, I am not relying on YT (nor anybody for that matter), but he is a UK Barrister, a visible and identifiable real person, and I think that's pretty credible in and of itself.   Once again, thank you.

DullGreyGuy

Stuck_1963 said:

Alan, I hope you're right re costs, I would not like to end up paying for their court costs were I to lose because I don't know the law.  All I know is that I paid £626 for something that I never received with another £70 spent on top trying to get it back.

"Small claims court" is popular parlance for the small track of the civil court procedure. You don't take someone to the small claims court but you issue a court claims form and assuming the defendant submits a defence in time it will then go into a process where the court allocates it to one of the three tracks (small, fast or multi).

For any claim under £10k that isnt for a bodily injury the guidance is that it is allocated to small track but there are cases where due to the complexity of the matter it gets allocated to a higher track or where a higher value claim is allocated to small track still. The general principle is to get things into the lower tracks.

In Small Track the general principle is that legal costs are excluded however there are two exceptions to this, firstly under Part 45 (a type of pre-court settlement offer) or at the judges discretion if one of the parties has acted unreasonably. The later is rare but it can go either way, ie you could win the case but if you hadn't engaged with the defendant at all and gone straight to issuing as soon as the problem arose the judge could make you pay the defence's reasonable costs even though you won for not attempting to settle out of court.

Also note costs, even when awarded, are based on reasonable costs and so a company could hire a £1,500/hr partner from one of the magic circle law firms to deal with a £300 breach of contract matter but the judge would almost certainly never agree that it was reasonable to do so and so an award would more likely be based on a junior associate or paralegal rate which would have been the more reasonable level of lawyer to engage for a trivial matter.

Stuck_1963

Thank you so much @DullGreyGuy.

Lastminute have rejected my claim, responding to it by claiming that the flight ticket was sold by Bravonext, a Swiss company based in Switzerland.

In their response, Lastminute are also INCORRECT in that they claim I've already been reimbursed by my bank!

This is completely untrue!!!!

Lastminute have opted for No Mediation and I've tried to find out what this means by calling the Small Claims Court helpline - apparently it goes to a district judge or legal person to deal with.

The Small Claims advisor also stated that to go to that next level would cost me a further £85 (because they've opted for a No Mediation I believe ).

So I don't know if it goes further, will I then have to shell out even more money?

Alan_Bowen

Yes, the £85 is the payment to set the case down for a hearing. If you succeed then that is paid to you together with the initial issuance fee. You need to make sure you are suing the correct company, that is vital because if you haven't the case will be lost.

Westin

From your other thread (where you said the flight was NOT cancelled but your reservation/seat was) you mentioned this -

"I .did purchase this ticket using PayPal, but PayPal have a policy of only one dispute per transaction and I'd already used that up on something else related to this whole sorry sage with Lastminute, AA, BA (the flight was operated by them) and the pandemic situation...."

In a post above you said LM have provided in defence - 

"In their response, Lastminute are also INCORRECT in that they claim I've already been reimbursed by my bank!"

Can you elaborate on the dispute you previously raised on this booking via PayPal and how that was awarded and against what?  Is it possible either that the PayPal dispute was awarded in your favour, money was then reclaimed from American Airlines (or LM)  and that they then subsequently cancelled your flight reservation as the payment had been disputed? 

With reference to the bank, have you checked if the money is in your PayPal account? 

Stuck_1963

Thanks to everybody for chiming in, I really appreciate it (you have no idea, for example, today I spoke to both the Small Claims people on their helpline and to Citizen's advice, spent around 2 hours and to be honest, I have very nearly have given up on this, I cannot cope with the stress, but equally, I cannot stand by and watch them not honour a refund.  The ticket was a gift and I don't have the funds to pay for another ticket).

@Westin, it's all a long story......

I bought the ticket in Sept 21, for a flight in Nov. 21.  The ticket was a flexible one so I was allowed to change the flying date, and so I did, around mid-October.  But, because LM were taking very long time to sort that out, I was worried they wouldn't be able to change it in time before that flight and so I contacted PayPal to tell them that it was looking like LM might not change my ticket in time and that was why the original dispute was opened (ie.just in case).  When LM eventually did manage to change the ticket in time, (with about a week to go before the original flight in November) I then closed the PayPal dispute because the 'worry was over'.  So, no money was ever refunded for this because LM managed to get it changed to the new date of Feb 22.

And I emailed LM with the Proof of Dispute Closed via PayPal and they accepted that.

(I believe the litigation department has simply not spoken to those in the booking department and so do not have their facts correct).

It was then, that in December 21 that I was emailed via LM that my Feb flight had been cancelled and that is what both I, and LM (on my behalf as they'd say) have been trying to get the refund for....

Definitely I have not received any money nor is there any money sitting in my PayPal account.

What I don't get/understand, is that I have received an email from LM, since the Small Claim that they'll give me a flight voucher to the tune of the amount of the ticket as a 'gesture of goodwill' (stating that they were doing this only to retain good customer relations and didn't admit to any wrongdoing on their behalf).....

WHY on earth would they do that if they are claiming all sorts including that I've already been reimbursed???

Since that LM email (offering me the voucher), I've heard nothing from them and it's been over 3 weeks (feels like they've ignored me since my reply to that offer asked some questions re the voucher restrictions, maybe I asked 'too much').

Westin

What sort of 'flexible' ticket did you buy?

These online ticket sellers rarely sell the true flexible tickets that airlines sell.  These can be double/treble+ the cost of a normal ticket. 

LM and other online sellers might offer an upsell and call it something like Flexi, Flexi Ticket or similar name which are sold at a small extra cost. This doesn't however turn a cheap ticket into a fully flexible ticket.  It might just mean the agent change fees are not charged but you often still have to pay any fare difference with the airline, plus any airline change fees. 

Going to take a punt here but if you bought this watered down 'Flexi' option and changed your dates of travel (to Feb 22), I think LM might have made this request to AA, and they then converted your original fare to a voucher or future travel credit (possible under some covid travel waver).  That booking then cancelled in the AA system.  LM then used your AA credit to rebook a flight for your new date.  If that credit was not applied correctly, or a balance to pay, then AA/LM would not have ticketed the booking and that second reservation would also cancel.  The now unspent funds would be sitting as a voucher/credit (which LM seem to be offering).

As well as checking out that you are  naming the correct legal entity on claim documents for the court I would also revisit exactly what flexible ticket option you purchased and if LM fulfilled the conditions of the sale correctly.

kurtish2910

Stuck_1963 said:

I've taken Lastminute.com to the small claims court for a cancelled flight, they have been very slow and I gave them 14 days to return my money.

They ignored that, so I took them to the small claims court, and only then did they offer me a voucher (as a "gesture of goodwill").

I semi-accepted that (I replied with a few questions) and now it's been weeks and no reply.  There's about 2 weeks left before the Small Claims Court case is closed, but with no reply from Lastminute (I called them as well, and they said they're dealing with my email), I'm re-considering my Small Claim case.

However.... Lastminute rejected that Court Claim and now I'm getting wet feet.

Is this the right section to ask such questions?

If not please can someone direct me?

What I'm concerned about is if I lose my case (why would they reject it and why would they offer me a voucher after all this time if they had no reason to).

I can't afford to lose, if, for example, I do lose and I owe them thousands.  We're talking about a ticket which cost £700 including court case.

Many thanks.

Hi 

Sorry you are experiencing problems from LM, I am experiencing something similar. It's coming to 3 years and they still have not given my £500. I am going to Small Claims now, what is the address you used for them, as more than one address comes up?

Kind regards

Voyager2002

Check carefully the address of LastMinute's registered office. If that is still in Switzerland then they are likely to be able to ignore UK court judgements, unless they have any assets within the jurisdiction of an English court.

folive21

Hi, was this ever resolved? @Stuck_1963 I am having a similar situation with Lastminute, still waiting for a refund after an airline cancelled my flight. I have now taken them to the small claims court.They have responded saying the flight ticket was sold by Bravonext, a Swiss company based in Switzerland, so not quite sure whether to  go ahead with the court hearing.