Please can someone help me with regards to the Small Claims Court procedure?

Stuck_1963

I've taken Lastminute.com to the small claims court for a cancelled flight, they have been very slow and I gave them 14 days to return my money.

They ignored that, so I took them to the small claims court, and only then did they offer me a voucher (as a "gesture of goodwill").

I semi-accepted that (I replied with a few questions) and now it's been weeks and no reply.  There's about 2 weeks left before the Small Claims Court case is closed, but with no reply from Lastminute (I called them as well, and they said they're dealing with my email), I'm re-considering my Small Claim case.

However.... Lastminute rejected that Court Claim and now I'm getting wet feet.

Is this the right section to ask such questions?

If not please can someone direct me?

What I'm concerned about is if I lose my case (why would they reject it and why would they offer me a voucher after all this time if they had no reason to).

I can't afford to lose, if, for example, I do lose and I owe them thousands.  We're talking about a ticket which cost £700 including court case.

Many thanks.

DullGreyGuy

Why would you owe them thousands if you lost? You say you are suing them and so they must be the one that owes you money.

Companies will often offer a gesture of goodwill upon receiving the court claim forms simply because the cost of defending the claim is more than the cost of paying the claim. They therefore pay up but they dont want to admit liability as that then opens the door to you demanding more so instead do it a a GoG so they would still have the option to defend a subsequent claim.

Westin

DullGreyGuy said:

Why would you owe them thousands if you lost? You say you are suing them and so they must be the one that owes you money.

Companies will often offer a gesture of goodwill upon receiving the court claim forms simply because the cost of defending the claim is more than the cost of paying the claim. They therefore pay up but they dont want to admit liability as that then opens the door to you demanding more so instead do it a a GoG so they would still have the option to defend a subsequent claim.

I guess it could be dependant on who cancelled the flight.

If the airline cancelled and returned the money to LM, they should pass it back to the booker (minus any agreed admin fee).

If the passenger cancelled, perhaps due to covid restrictions of some type, then not clear cut and perhaps why the OP has doubts about the case outcome.

Stuck_1963

Hi,

Thanks guys for the reply, I really do appreciate it.

No, I didn't cancel the flight.  The flight got cancelled by the airline and LM have been 'trying' to get me my money back (since December 2021).....  

I saw on YouTube a barrister saying that the agent must/has to give the money back after 7 days (for a cancelled flight by the airline), but these indeed are unprecedented times.

to DullGreyGuy, I am worried that their costs could run into money I don't have (ie hundreds/thousand for their Barrister/costs). 

I have been waiting for the refund because we want to buy another ticket so I can travel.  I don't 'mind' a voucher but as said previously, Lastminute haven't responded to my email asking what restrictions there might be with regards to their voucher (i.e. I'd like to use another airline this time) and there is around 10 days before the deadline from the Small Claims Court to respond to their 'rejection'.

The Small Claims Court have asked me for what I want to do next (I've never used a Small Claims Court before).

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Many thanks.

Caz3121

Stuck_1963 said:

No, I didn't cancel the flight.  The flight got cancelled by the airline and LM have been 'trying' to get me my money back (since December 2021).....  

on this thread you said the flight was not cancelled but you did not have a seat https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6382575/flight-cancelled-mid-dec-21-still-no-refund-to-date-lastminute-rejected-small-claim-court#latest

Given you chose a pretty poor third party to deal with I would suspect that after you made a booking request they could not fulfil it and they did not pay for the flight (possibly because their advertised, non-live, price was not available and to have a ticket issued they need to pay in full)

Has American Airlines confirmed whether they ever received payment and, if they did, whether they have returned it to LastMinute?

eskbanker

Stuck_1963 said:

I saw on YouTube a barrister saying that the agent must/has to give the money back after 7 days (for a cancelled flight by the airline)

For future reference, before embarking on court action, it'll be more prudent to study the legislation itself rather than watching videos - it's certainly true that airlines are required under UK/EU261 to refund within seven days but I'm not aware of any equivalent legal obligation on agents, but happy to be corrected as I'm neither a lawyer nor someone who pretends to be one....

Alan_Bowen

It is important to know that in Small Claims cases, even if you lose you will not be responsible for their legal fees, the aim of Small Claims is to keep lawyers out of the system and the only costs you are likely to lose are the court fees which you paid. 

Airlines do not randomly cancel seats, they might overlook but you would have had a ticket and they would have offered you money and an alternative flight if it really was overbooked. It sounds to me that either there never was a booking or there was but it had a ticketing deadline which was missed and therefore the airline cancelled the booking. My strong advice is to talk to American Airlines reservations here in London and using the reference you should have had, 6 numbers and letters, ask what happened to the booking before going any further 

Stuck_1963

Firstly, thank you everybody for chiming in, I really, really appreciate it (this issue has been one big headache and I've had to deal with this up until now all on my own and I'm out of my depth).

So, thank you!

Firstly, I have already contacted AA, and they said that the flight did go ahead but my ticket was cancelled (in December 21).

I asked them who cancelled it because I definitely did not and all they said was that my booking had the reference "Columbo" and that it had been changed/cancelled (I can't remember exactly)..... (I took that reference as someone truly having a laugh at my expense because I took that reference as meaning "have fun figuring it out...", i.e. detective Columbo.......

Anyway, I'd booked this flight only in September 21, for a Feb 22 flight (to USA), and in December 21, I was informed that my flight had gotten cancelled.  Initially at the beginning LM told me it could be anything from a reschedule to a technical issue with the aircraft (technical? me thinks, not very likely).

However, as mentioned, I did contact AA myself around July of this year and they told me the above (re the Columbo reference....).

I didn't ask if LM had already had the money returned but AA did say that if I wanted to rebook I'd get £125 towards another flight..... (no way, I want all my money, £626 back).

@Alan, I hope you're right re costs, I would not like to end up paying for their court costs were I to lose because I don't know the law.  All I know is that I paid £626 for something that I never received with another £70 spent on top trying to get it back.

@eskbanker, the Barrister on YouTube is called BlackBeltBarrister and here is the link to his advice;

https://youtu.be/GIsWVBP8OLA

I can call AA tomorrow and see if I can find out if LM did receive the money back, etc...

Any further input, suggestions, advice etc would be very much appreciated.

Thank you.

eskbanker

Stuck_1963 said:

@eskbanker, the Barrister on YouTube is called BlackBeltBarrister and here is the link to his advice

But my point is that just because someone says something on a YouTube video, that isn't enough to take to a court!  There's no disputing that the regulations impose an obligation on airlines to refund within seven days (either for cancellations or denied boarding) but if that refund is to an agent, who in turn is responsible for then passing it on to the traveller, then I haven't seen any credible source (i.e. authoritative legislation, etc) that mandates the latter transaction being within any specific timescale....

Stuck_1963

eskbanker said:

Stuck_1963 said:

@eskbanker, the Barrister on YouTube is called BlackBeltBarrister and here is the link to his advice

But my point is that just because someone says something on a YouTube video, that isn't enough to take to a court!  There's no disputing that the regulations impose an obligation on airlines to refund within seven days (either for cancellations or denied boarding) but if that refund is to an agent, who in turn is responsible for then passing it on to the traveller, then I haven't seen any credible source (i.e. authoritative legislation, etc) that mandates the latter transaction being within any specific timescale....

He didn't say take people to court and I just went and did that.   If you watch the video he does mention the issue when an Agent is involved....

There are others who have taken LM to court for flight cancellations and had gotten their refunds (on YouTube, though the one I watched I can no longer find online).

eskbanker

Stuck_1963 said:

eskbanker said:

Stuck_1963 said:

@eskbanker, the Barrister on YouTube is called BlackBeltBarrister and here is the link to his advice

But my point is that just because someone says something on a YouTube video, that isn't enough to take to a court!  There's no disputing that the regulations impose an obligation on airlines to refund within seven days (either for cancellations or denied boarding) but if that refund is to an agent, who in turn is responsible for then passing it on to the traveller, then I haven't seen any credible source (i.e. authoritative legislation, etc) that mandates the latter transaction being within any specific timescale....

He didn't say take people to court and I just went and did that.   If you watch the video he does mention the issue when an Agent is involved....

There are others who have taken LM to court for flight cancellations and had gotten their refunds (on YouTube, though the one I watched I can no longer find online).

I think you're still missing the point - there is no dispute that LM are responsible for refunding you, but the question is over whether there's any obligation for them to do so within seven days.  I don't believe there is, but if there is a credible source (not YT!) that mandates that timescale then please share....