Landlord wants to give notice even before what break clause allows

jaideep211

Hi All

Would appreciate your advice to my situation.

I am currently in 4th month of a 1 year lease agreement (The contract runs from May 15th 2022 to May 14th 2023).

The agreement allows either party to give 2 months’ notice after 4 months into the agreement (break clause). The break clause is boiler plate (that is, it does not provide for any exceptions etc). All it says is as follows:

Special condition: It is agreed that (after an initial period of four months) two months notice in writing may be served by either party to terminate this agreement).

Today ( Aug 18), I received a call that the landlord wants to move in due to her personal situation. The agent further said that since the landlord herself is moving in, the break clause notice  / clause would not apply.

I requested for more time given my pregnant wife is due mid-Dec. I offered to move sometime mid-Jan after the baby is here. However, my request has now been declined and I was told I would need to vacate in 2 months from now. I am waiting for the written notice from the agent.

My question is whether Is the agent correct that Landlord does not need to abide by the agreed break clause dates?

PS: I have no issues around arrears etc at all. Me and my wife have stable jobs and we just needed more time given she is currently pregnant.

Cheers

m0bov

It surely needs to be the correct S21 or S8 or something? Not just a random phone call. Only a court can evict you, I suggest the LL pays you to leave if its that urgent. You hold all the cards.

Standingstrong

Yes she’ll have to serve you a S21 with the actual reasons of her moving back into the property.

Have you Got any arrears outstanding over 2 months? Any consistent late payments of rent?

if so that’s why she’s served you notice but if you got over 2 months worth of rent arrears then she needs to serve you a s8 (two week notice ) then she can apply for courts , outright posession and then bailiffs will turf you out regardless.

but you can scrape up the arrears amount to pay off before she gets to court and then the notice will become invalid. 

but if it’s a S21 then she can provide you with 2 months notice with the reasons of her moving in. 

As per you saying arrears how much are we talking here?

but if you got rent arrears then she can serve a S8 notice to get you out.

jaideep211

Thanks to both @Standingstrong and @m0bov. 

To clarify, I do not have any arrears. All payments have been made on time. There are no other issues. 

To confirm, you are saying, by serving S21 (with reasons for moving in) she could ask me to leave before Nov 15 (date currently allowed by the break clause)? 

DullGreyGuy

So 3 and a bit months in the notice would effectively commence in a couple of weeks and then would be two months but even then that will have you leaving before your proposed date. So either you can choose to stay put and force the landlord to go down the legal route of kicking you out or negotiate. If they want you out 3 weeks earlier then they are entitled to how about the last month is rent free? Or whatever would help you. 

Ultimately, morally at least, you signed a contract that said you accepted you may have to leave by the 15th November

diego_94

May to August is only 3 months not 4 months (but keep this quiet). The landlord really should of thought about this beofer they agreed a 12month tenancy to you. Like others have said, you hold all the cards here.

Just stay put, and if you get the official notice between now and 4 months which is 16th September, let them take it all the way to court then they will throw it out as its not outside 4 months of the tenancy start. Then they have to start again with 2 months notice.

If I were you I'ld be wanting the landlord to pay me to leave.

Oh and change the locks, but kepe the old one for when you move out so you can put them back.

newsgroupmonkey_

jaideep211 said:

Thanks to both @Standingstrong and @m0bov. 

To clarify, I do not have any arrears. All payments have been made on time. There are no other issues. 

To confirm, you are saying, by serving S21 (with reasons for moving in) she could ask me to leave before Nov 15 (date currently allowed by the break clause)? 

It's already mentioned in the thread and is common on this forum.

An S21 is a notice to apply to the courts to get their property back. So, provided the S21 meets all the criteria (see here ), then when the S21 expires, they can apply to the courts. In this case, it would probably be an accelerated one which would mean another 2-3 months from the date they apply (depending on backlog in the courts). If and when it went to court, the judge would then probably give another month if you explained that your wife was pregnant or you had a new born.

So realistically? They're not getting their place back this year. Or probably before February.

The letting agent will tell you that everything I've said above is wrong. As probably will the landlord.

Shelter are on your side

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/eviction/section_21_eviction/section_21_eviction_process

jaideep211

Thanks all. I have no intention of breaking the agreement. I only requested that they allow me to stay until Jan (after the baby is here). 

To clarify, This is my second year in the property. My first 12 month period ended on May 14, 2022 after which I signed a new agreement for another 12 months with the same clauses as before (including break clause). My understanding is that this is a brand new agreement and therefore, the break clause period would stand on its own irrespective of the agreement signed in the prior year. 

saajan_12

jaideep211 said:

Hi All

Would appreciate your advice to my situation.

I am currently in 4th month of a 1 year lease agreement (The contract runs from May 15th 2022 to May 14th 2023).

The agreement allows either party to give 2 months’ notice after 4 months into the agreement (break clause). The break clause is boiler plate (that is, it does not provide for any exceptions etc). All it says is as follows:

Special condition: It is agreed that (after an initial period of four months) two months notice in writing may be served by either party to terminate this agreement). - yes, that's a break clause so he can't trigger that yet. But that may not be what he's using. 

Today ( Aug 18), I received a call that the landlord wants to move in due to her personal situation. The agent further said that since the landlord herself is moving in, the break clause notice  / clause would not apply. - its not that it doesn't apply, its that that's not the option he's using. Instead, it sounds like Section 8 Ground 1. The key is did the tenancy agreement also mention that the LL may wish to move in in future?

I requested for more time given my pregnant wife is due mid-Dec. I offered to move sometime mid-Jan after the baby is here. - Practically, by the time it gets to court you may well get past Dec, but honestly it might be easier to look now and find a mutually convenient move out date before birth. Moving with a little one and tired out parents won't necessarily be easier than moving with a pregnant person. 

However, my request has now been declined and I was told I would need to vacate in 2 months from now. I am waiting for the written notice from the agent.

My question is whether Is the agent correct that Landlord does not need to abide by the agreed break clause dates? - please check whether the original tenancy agreement or any other communication before the tenancy started included the appropriate notice as above. If so, then yes the agent is correct. 

PS: I have no issues around arrears etc at all. Me and my wife have stable jobs and we just needed more time given she is currently pregnant.

Cheers

The break clause is a contractual agreement that either of you can choose to exercise. 

The LL is not using that, but rather Section 8 Ground 1 - this only applies if the LL gave you prior notice that they either previously lived there or may wish to live there in the future (often written into tenancy agreements). If this applies, then the LL may give 2 months notice citing S8, G1 at any time and then apply to court. 

DullGreyGuy

jaideep211 said:

Thanks all. I have no intention of breaking the agreement. I only requested that they allow me to stay until Jan (after the baby is here). 

To clarify, This is my second year in the property. My first 12 month period ended on May 14, 2022 after which I signed a new agreement for another 12 months with the same clauses as before (including break clause). My understanding is that this is a brand new agreement and therefore, the break clause period would stand on its own irrespective of the agreement signed in the prior year. 

Yes, if you signed a new contract the clause is relative to this contract unless there are explicit clauses about it being a continuation/extension. 

As others have said, you hold the cards and can be the bad tenant that waits to get kicked out by bailiffs and then you just need to think about your next reference. However you signed a contract accepting you could legitimately be asked to leave by 16th November and so either staying longer or leaving earlier is a negotiation. What extra are you willing to pay beyond the rent to stay longer? What does the landlord have to pay you to get you to leave earlier?

grumiofoundation

DullGreyGuy said:

jaideep211 said:

Thanks all. I have no intention of breaking the agreement. I only requested that they allow me to stay until Jan (after the baby is here). 

To clarify, This is my second year in the property. My first 12 month period ended on May 14, 2022 after which I signed a new agreement for another 12 months with the same clauses as before (including break clause). My understanding is that this is a brand new agreement and therefore, the break clause period would stand on its own irrespective of the agreement signed in the prior year. 

Yes, if you signed a new contract the clause is relative to this contract unless there are explicit clauses about it being a continuation/extension. 

As others have said, you hold the cards and can be the bad tenant that waits to get kicked out by bailiffs and then you just need to think about your next reference. However you signed a contract accepting you could legitimately be asked to leave by 16th November and so either staying longer or leaving earlier is a negotiation. What extra are you willing to pay beyond the rent to stay longer? What does the landlord have to pay you to get you to leave earlier?

Nothing extra beyond the rent needs to be paid for the OP (or any tenant) to stay past the date a section 21/8 notice expires. The tenancy doesn’t end on that date. Please don’t post misleading information.