Cancelling Double Glazing

Manxman_in_exile

@powerful_Rogue -  that's interesting.  Where is it from?

Looking at the definition in the legislation I thought it would be off-premises, but looking more closely I see not. 

However, doesn't the quote you've provided give the wrong reason for it not being off-premises?

The quote you give says it's not an off-premises sale "... unless the consumer agrees to the contract immediately after [my bold] the trader has left their home ...", but is that right? 

Surely if the trader has already left the consumer's home, then it's not an off premises sale no matter how quickly the consumer agrees to the contrcat?  I take from the definition of an off-premises sale that the contrcat must be concluded in the simultaneous physical presence of both consumer and trader for it to be off-premises.

Or am I missing something obvious.  (I might well be     ) 

Jenni_D

The other factor is that this was all (except the measuring) done via Facebook, so this would be a distance sale? (Although as these are personalised items there's no automatic cancellation right anyway - unless the lack of T&Cs and advising of distance contract rights nullifies the "personalised" exclusion?)

powerful_Rogue

Manxman_in_exile said:

@powerful_Rogue -  that's interesting.  Where is it from?

Looking at the definition in the legislation I thought it would be off-premises, but looking more closely I see not. 

However, doesn't the quote you've provided give the wrong reason for it not being off-premises?

The quote you give says it's not an off-premises sale "... unless the consumer agrees to the contract immediately after [my bold] the trader has left their home ...", but is that right? 

Surely if the trader has already left the consumer's home, then it's not an off premises sale no matter how quickly the consumer agrees to the contrcat?  I take from the definition of an off-premises sale that the contrcat must be concluded in the simultaneous physical presence of both consumer and trader for it to be off-premises.

Or am I missing something obvious.  (I might well be     ) 

Post from @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head from a very recent thread. https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6378840/canceling-building-work/p2

Immediately is subjective to an extent, but agreeing to the quote a day later certainly wouldn't be immediately, so making it an on-premises contract.

powerful_Rogue

Jenni_D said:

The other factor is that this was all (except the measuring) done via Facebook, so this would be a distance sale? (Although as these are personalised items there's no automatic cancellation right anyway - unless the lack of T&Cs and advising of distance contract rights nullifies the "personalised" exclusion?)

OP says they came to their address including measuring up, therefore it's not a distance sale.

Manxman_in_exile

Jenni_D said:

The other factor is that this was all (except the measuring) done via Facebook, so this would be a distance sale? (Although as these are personalised items there's no automatic cancellation right anyway - unless the lack of T&Cs and advising of distance contract rights nullifies the "personalised" exclusion?)

powerful_Rogue said:

Jenni_D said:

The other factor is that this was all (except the measuring) done via Facebook, so this would be a distance sale? (Although as these are personalised items there's no automatic cancellation right anyway - unless the lack of T&Cs and advising of distance contract rights nullifies the "personalised" exclusion?)

OP says they came to their address including measuring up, therefore it's not a distance sale.

Yeah  -  don't think it's a distance sale(?).

The definition appears to say that a distance sale must be concluded "... with the exclusive use of one or more means of distance communication up to and including the time at which the contract is concluded;".  The visit to the OP's home to measure up means it isn't a distance sale(?).

And it's not off-premises because the contract was not concluded in the simultaneous physical presence of both parties.

The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk)

Manxman_in_exile

powerful_Rogue said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

@powerful_Rogue -  that's interesting.  Where is it from?

Looking at the definition in the legislation I thought it would be off-premises, but looking more closely I see not. 

However, doesn't the quote you've provided give the wrong reason for it not being off-premises?

The quote you give says it's not an off-premises sale "... unless the consumer agrees to the contract immediately after [my bold] the trader has left their home ...", but is that right? 

Surely if the trader has already left the consumer's home, then it's not an off premises sale no matter how quickly the consumer agrees to the contrcat?  I take from the definition of an off-premises sale that the contrcat must be concluded in the simultaneous physical presence of both consumer and trader for it to be off-premises.

Or am I missing something obvious.  (I might well be     ) 

Post from @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head from a very recent thread. https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6378840/canceling-building-work/p2

Immediately is subjective to an extent, but agreeing to the quote a day later certainly wouldn't be immediately, so making it an on-premises contract.

OK.  Looking at the definition in the legislation it seems that an off-premises contract requires the simultaneous physical presence of both parties when the contract is concluded.  If they aren't both present then it isn't an off-premises contract.

So you are right in this case that it isn't an off-premises contract because they weren't both present when the OP accepted the qoute (or when the trader accepted their offer to buy!).  And it isn't a distance sale because it was not exclusively carried out at a distance.

But I think the source used by @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head is wrong to suggest that it might still be an off-premises sale if "the consumer agrees to the contract immediately after the trader has left their home".  The law appears to require them both to be simultaneously in each other's presence.  If the trader has left, they aren't present...

Jenni_D

powerful_Rogue said:

Jenni_D said:

The other factor is that this was all (except the measuring) done via Facebook, so this would be a distance sale? (Although as these are personalised items there's no automatic cancellation right anyway - unless the lack of T&Cs and advising of distance contract rights nullifies the "personalised" exclusion?)

OP says they came to their address including measuring up, therefore it's not a distance sale.

The OP actually says:

cloud21 said:

Ergates said:

Where did you arrange/sign the contract?   Did you go to their place of business?   Did they come to you?  If they came to you, did you sign there are then or did they leave a quotation for you to reveiw and get back to them?

They came to me only, measured up, sent me a message via Facebook the following day with the quote. I got back to them confirming what i wanted done, they booked me in.

That's a little bit woolly in my eyes as to where/when/how the contract was formed.

powerful_Rogue

Jenni_D said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Jenni_D said:

The other factor is that this was all (except the measuring) done via Facebook, so this would be a distance sale? (Although as these are personalised items there's no automatic cancellation right anyway - unless the lack of T&Cs and advising of distance contract rights nullifies the "personalised" exclusion?)

OP says they came to their address including measuring up, therefore it's not a distance sale.

The OP actually says:

cloud21 said:

Ergates said:

Where did you arrange/sign the contract?   Did you go to their place of business?   Did they come to you?  If they came to you, did you sign there are then or did they leave a quotation for you to reveiw and get back to them?

They came to me only, measured up, sent me a message via Facebook the following day with the quote. I got back to them confirming what i wanted done, they booked me in.

That's a little bit woolly in my eyes as to where/when/how the contract was formed.

So you're saying they didn't goto the OP's address and then measure up?
What's woolly about it? Fits the description of an on-premises sale perfectly.

Manxman_in_exile

As I understand the definitions, an on-premises contract is one that is neither a distance contract nor an off-premises contract.

An off-premises contract is one where the contract is concluded in the simultaneous physical presence of both the consumer and trader.  (In this case they weren't simultaneously in each other's presence when the contrcat was concluded)

A distance contract is one which is concluded "... with the exclusive use of one or more means of distance communication up to and including the time at which the contract is concluded;".  In this case the trader visited the OP's home to measure up for the quote, so it isn't exclusively a distance contract.

If it's neither a distance nor an off-premises contract it must - by definition - be an on premises contract.

Is that right?

Grumpy_chap

What type of measuring was done when they visited?
Often, there is an approximate measure to prepare the quote.
If the order goes ahead, then a precise measure prior to manufacture.