UKPC - 13 Minute Stay - 'Registered Users Only'

igwd

Hi all,

I have read the main newbies thread (https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou#latest) and I am after some further guidance if at all possible, as I am unsure how to respond to letter 2.

I will pre-face with a little bit of an explanation of what happened:

My nanna wanted to take some of her old belongings to a charity shop near myself, I picked her up and we parked behind said charity shop where I saw signs with the name of aforementioned charity shop. We parked, I helped her with her bin bags of bits and bobs and then she perused for a while.

We left shortly after and I hadn't thought much of it, I didn't receive anything on the windscreen. Upon receiving a ticket a few days later, I went back to the car-park to realise that the spot I parked in had no signs in front of it, all other spaces were filled with large cars that were obscuring the signage so I did not notice it. I also missed the single sign on the way in.

Total stay was: 13 minutes

I will attach below signage at the car park and letters received.

In summary:
- Stopped 13 minutes in 'Registered Users Only' Charity Shop spot for a Charity Shop which I attended
- No windscreen ticket
- Letter One received
- Went back to charity shop and explained circumstances and was told land-owner is an unscrupulous individual and that they (an employee) themselves had received ticket(s) too
- Newbie template used to 'appeal' to UKPC as the 'Keeper'
- Letter Two received

_________________________________________________________

SIGN ON WALL BEFORE DRIVING IN:








VARIOUS SIGNAGE IN THE AREA I WAS PARKED:























LETTER ONE:








PLEADED MY CASE AT LOCAL CHARITY SHOP, WAS TOLD LAND-OWNER WON'T BE INTERESTED

(GENERIC NEWBIE APPEAL - SENT AS 'KEEPER' AFTER LETTER ONE, RESULTED IN THE BELOW REPLY)





LETTER TWO:

Mouse007

I'm not sure you have actually asked a question (?) I hope however you know NOT to name the driver, or fall for the "signed authority" nonsense. You have a good defence, but will have to go through the mill to get there.

igwd

Mouse007 said:

I'm not sure you have actually asked a question (?) I hope however you know NOT to name the driver, or fall for the "signed authority" nonsense. You have a good defence, but will have to go through the mill to get there.

Yes, I put in my opener that "I am after some further guidance if at all possible." as I am unsure how to respond to letter 2.

I will edit my original post and clarify that, thanks for making it clear that I was unclear in my request for assistance 👍

Fruitcake

The keeper appears to have received a NTK from UKPC, and has appealed without identifying the driver. All good so far.

UKPC have sent their bog-standard begging letter, "please blab about the driver's identity to save us time and money and make our job easier" letter.

Ignore it.

Eventually the keeper will get a rejection letter with a PoPLA code.

At that point, use all the points available to you from the third post of the NEWBIES thread to construct an appeal and post it here for checking before you submit it.

UKPC signs are always pants and breach the BPA's code of practice, so get your own pics of the site and signage, but note that the ones UKPC normally provide in their evidence are usually unreadable, so you may want to use their own evidence against them.

Add an additional point that loading and unlading is not parking as determined in the appeal court case of Jopson vs Homeguard. The transcript is available online so look it up and quote the relevant words from the judge, around paragraph 19 or 20.

Complain to the landowner anyway, and your MP.

patient_dream

As Fruitcake says, the letter is just nonsense trying to trap you
They don't know who the driver is and they never will ?

Next letter will give you a POPLA code. Then come back here

Johnersh

Not sure the sign is a contract is it?

There is no offer of parking
There is no agreement to pay (nor ability to accept permission to park if none is offered) 

Even if I'm wrong in that

I'm not sure the contract is possible to perform since the o/p was not registered, presumably would be refused registration and there is no explanation as to how to become registered 

Even if I'm wrong in that

There is a forest of signs saying different things and the purple sign might actually be regarded as an invitation for those leaving donations by car. 

Coupon-mad

Nutshell, @Johnersh!

igwd

As advised by yourselves, letter three arrived not too long after letter two, with the typical 'rejection' and POPLA ref:



Below I will prepare my POPLA appeal whilst referencing post 3 of the 'newbies' thread, please review at your convenience.

_________

POPLA Appeal Letter

Dear POPLA Adjudicator,

The registered keeper of vehicle xxxxxx, is appealing a parking charge from UKPC on the following grounds:

1. The car was not 'Parked' by very definition, it was stopped by purposes of unloading. (Section 20, Jopson V Homeguard).

2. There is no offer of contractual parking and no details of 'registration' to become a 'registered user'.

3. The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who was liable for the charge.

4. No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice.

5. The signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces and there is insufficient notice of the sum of the parking charge itself, all signage is conflicting and says / threatens different actions, some signs are even reasonably perceived as inviting.

____________________

1. The car was not 'Parked' by very definition, it was stopped by purposes of unloading.

It was set forward by Judge Harris QC on 29th June, 2016 in the case of Jopson V Homeguard in Section 20 that:

- (20) Neither party was able to direct the court to any authority on the meaning of the word “park”. However, the Shorter Oxford Dictionary has the following: “To leave a vehicle in a carpark or other reserved space” and “To leave in a suitable place until required.” The concept of parking, as opposed to stopping, is that of leaving a car for some duration of time beyond that needed for getting in or out of it, loading or unloading it, and perhaps coping with some vicissitude of short duration, such as changing a wheel in the event of a puncture. Merely to stop a vehicle cannot be to park it; otherwise traffic jams would consist of lines of parked cars. Delivery vans, whether for post, newspapers, groceries, or anything else, would not be accommodated on an interpretation which included vehicles stopping for a few moment for these purposes. Discussion in this area left the respondent in obvious difficulties.

The car was stopped for purposes of donating items to a charity shop, said charity shop has an inviting branded sign in the grounds.



____________________


2. There is no visible offer of contractual parking and no details of 'registration' to become a 'registered user'.

The operator does not offer parking, there is no agreement to pay (nor ability to accept permission to park if none is offered). There is no mention of how to become 'registered' as per the conflicting plethora of varying signage.

____________________


3. The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who was liable for the charge

In cases with a keeper appellant, yet no POFA 'keeper liability' to rely upon, POPLA must first consider whether they are confident that the Assessor knows who the driver is, based on the evidence received. No presumption can be made about liability whatsoever. A vehicle can be driven by any person (with the consent of the owner) as long as the driver is insured. There is no dispute that the driver was entitled to drive the car and I can confirm that they were, but I am exercising my right not to name that person.

Where a charge is aimed only at a driver then, of course, no other party can be told to pay. I am the appellant throughout (as I am entitled to be), and as there has been no admission regarding who was driving, and no evidence has been produced, it has been held by POPLA on numerous occasions, that a parking charge cannot be enforced against a keeper without a valid NTK.

As the keeper of the vehicle, it is my right to choose not to name the driver, yet still not be lawfully held liable if an operator is not using or complying with Schedule 4. This applies regardless of when the first appeal was made because the fact remains I am only the keeper and ONLY Schedule 4 of the POFA (or evidence of who was driving) can cause a keeper appellant to be deemed to be the liable party.

The burden of proof rests with the Operator, because they cannot use the POFA in this case, to show that (as an individual) I have personally not complied with terms in place on the land and show that I am personally liable for their parking charge. They cannot.

Furthermore, the vital matter of full compliance with the POFA 2012 was confirmed by parking law expert barrister, Henry Greenslade, the previous POPLA Lead Adjudicator, in 2015:

Understanding keeper liability
“There appears to be continuing misunderstanding about Schedule 4. Provided certain conditions are strictly complied with, it provides for recovery of unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle.

There is no ‘reasonable presumption’ in law that the registered keeper of a vehicle is the driver. Operators should never suggest anything of the sort. Further, a failure by the recipient of a notice issued under Schedule 4 to name the driver, does not of itself mean that the recipient has accepted that they were the driver at the material time. Unlike, for example, a Notice of Intended Prosecution where details of the driver of a vehicle must be supplied when requested by the police, pursuant to Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, a keeper sent a Schedule 4 notice has no legal obligation to name the driver. [...] If {POFA 2012 Schedule 4 is} not complied with then keeper liability does not generally pass.''

Therefore, no lawful right exists to pursue unpaid parking charges from myself as keeper of the vehicle, where an operator is NOT attempting to transfer the liability for the charge using the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

This exact finding was made in 6061796103 against ParkingEye in September 2016, where POPLA Assessor Carly Law found:
''I note the operator advises that it is not attempting to transfer the liability for the charge using the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and so in mind, the operator continues to hold the driver responsible. As such, I must first consider whether I am confident that I know who the driver is, based on the evidence received. After considering the evidence, I am unable to confirm that the appellant is in fact the driver. As such, I must allow the appeal on the basis that the operator has failed to demonstrate that the appellant is the driver and therefore liable for the charge. As I am allowing the appeal on this basis, I do not need to consider the other grounds of appeal raised by the appellant. Accordingly, I must allow this appeal.''

____________________


4. No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice

As this operator does not have proprietary interest in the land then I require that they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner. The contract and any 'site agreement' or 'User Manual' setting out details including exemptions - such as any 'genuine customer' or 'genuine resident' exemptions or any site occupier's 'right of veto' charge cancellation rights - is key evidence to define what this operator is authorised to do and any circumstances where the landowner/firms on site in fact have a right to cancellation of a charge. It cannot be assumed, just because an agent is contracted to merely put some signs up and issue Parking Charge Notices, that the agent is also authorised to make contracts with all or any category of visiting drivers and/or to enforce the charge in court in their own name (legal action regarding land use disputes generally being a matter for a landowner only).

Witness statements are not sound evidence of the above, often being pre-signed, generic documents not even identifying the case in hand or even the site rules. A witness statement might in some cases be accepted by POPLA but in this case I suggest it is unlikely to sufficiently evidence the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement.

Nor would it define vital information such as charging days/times, any exemption clauses, grace periods (which I believe may be longer than the bare minimum times set out in the BPA CoP) and basic information such as the land boundary and bays where enforcement applies/does not apply. Not forgetting evidence of the various restrictions which the landowner has authorised can give rise to a charge and of course, how much the landowner authorises this agent to charge (which cannot be assumed to be the sum in small print on a sign because template private parking terms and sums have been known not to match the actual landowner agreement).

Paragraph 7 of the BPA CoP defines the mandatory requirements and I put this operator to strict proof of full compliance:

7.2 If the operator wishes to take legal action on any outstanding parking charges, they must ensure that they have the written authority of the landowner (or their appointed agent) prior to legal action being taken.

7.3 The written authorisation must also set out:

a the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined

b any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation

c any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and enforcement

d who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs

e the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement

igwd

____________________

5. The signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces and there is insufficient notice of the sum of the parking charge itself, all signage is conflicting and says / threatens different actions, some signs are even reasonably perceived as inviting.

There was no contract nor agreement on the 'parking charge' at all. It is submitted that the driver did not have a fair opportunity to read about any terms involving this huge charge, which is out of all proportion and not saved by the dissimilar 'ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis' case.

In the Beavis case, which turned on specific facts relating only to the signs at that site and the unique interests and intentions of the landowners, the signs were unusually clear and not a typical example for this notorious industry. The Supreme Court were keen to point out the decision related to that car park and those facts only:

In the Beavis case, the £85 charge itself was in the largest font size with a contrasting colour background and the terms were legible, fairly concise and unambiguous. There were 'large lettering' signs at the entrance and all around the car park, according to the Judges.

Here is the 'Beavis case' sign as a comparison to the signs under dispute in this case:

This case, by comparison, does not demonstrate an example of the 'large lettering' and 'prominent signage' that impressed the Supreme Court Judges and swayed them into deciding that in the specific car park in the Beavis case alone, a contract and 'agreement on the charge' existed.

Here, the signs are sporadically placed, indeed obscured and hidden in some areas. They are unremarkable, not immediately obvious as parking terms and the wording is mostly illegible, being crowded and cluttered with a lack of white space as a background. It is indisputable that placing letters too close together in order to fit more information into a smaller space can drastically reduce the legibility of a sign, especially one which must be read BEFORE the action of parking and leaving the car.

It is vital to observe, since 'adequate notice of the parking charge' is mandatory under the POFA Schedule 4 and the BPA Code of Practice, these signs do not clearly mention the parking charge which is hidden in small print (and does not feature at all on some of the signs). Areas of this site are unsigned and there are no full terms displayed - i.e. with the sum of the parking charge itself in large lettering - at the entrance either, so it cannot be assumed that a driver drove past and could read a legible sign, nor parked near one.

This case is more similar to the signage in POPLA decision 5960956830 on 2.6.16, where the Assessor Rochelle Merritt found as fact that signs in a similar size font in a busy car park where other unrelated signs were far larger, was inadequate:

''the signage is not of a good enough size to afford motorists the chance to read and understand the terms and conditions before deciding to remain in the car park. [...] In addition the operators signs would not be clearly visible from a parking space [...] The appellant has raised other grounds for appeal but I have not dealt with these as I have allowed the appeal.''

From the evidence I have seen so far, the terms appear to be displayed inadequately, in letters no more than about half an inch high, approximately. I put the operator to strict proof as to the size of the wording on their signs and the size of lettering for the most onerous term, the parking charge itself.

The letters seem to be no larger than .40 font size going by this guide:

As further evidence that this is inadequate notice, Letter Height Visibility is discussed here:

''When designing your sign, consider how you will be using it, as well as how far away the readers you want to impact will be. For example, if you are placing a sales advertisement inside your retail store, your text only needs to be visible to the people in the store. 1-2” letters (or smaller) would work just fine. However, if you are hanging banners and want drivers on a nearby highway to be able to see them, design your letters at 3” or even larger.''

...and the same chart is reproduced here:

''When designing an outdoor sign for your business keep in mind the readability of the letters. Letters always look smaller when mounted high onto an outdoor wall''.

''...a guideline for selecting sign letters. Multiply the letter height by 10 and that is the best viewing distance in feet. Multiply the best viewing distance by 4 and that is the max viewing distance.''

So, a letter height of just half an inch, showing the terms and the 'charge' and placed high on a wall or pole or buried in far too crowded small print, is woefully inadequate in an outdoor car park. Given that letters look smaller when high up on a wall or pole, as the angle renders the words less readable due to the perspective and height, you would have to stand right in front of it and still need a stepladder (and perhaps a torch and/or magnifying glass) to be able to read the terms.

Under Lord Denning's Red Hand Rule, the charge (being 'out of all proportion' with expectations of drivers in this car park and which is the most onerous of terms) should have been effectively: 'in red letters with a red hand pointing to it' - i.e. VERY clear and prominent with the terms in large lettering, as was found to be the case in the car park in 'Beavis'. A reasonable interpretation of the 'red hand rule' and the 'signage visibility distance' tables above and the BPA Code of Practice, taking all information into account, would require a parking charge and the terms to be displayed far more transparently, on a lower sign and in far larger lettering, with fewer words and more 'white space' as background contrast. Indeed in the Consumer Rights Act 2015 there is a 'Requirement for transparency':

(1) A trader must ensure that a written term of a consumer contract, or a consumer notice in writing, is transparent.
(2) A consumer notice is transparent for the purposes of subsection (1) if it is expressed in plain and intelligible language and it is legible.

The Beavis case signs not being similar to the signs in this appeal at all, I submit that the persuasive case law is in fact 'Vine v London Borough of Waltham Forest [2000] EWCA Civ 106' about a driver not seeing the terms and consequently, she was NOT deemed bound by them.

This judgement is binding case law from the Court of Appeal and supports my argument, not the operator's case:

This was a victory for the motorist and found that, where terms on a sign are not seen and the area is not clearly marked/signed with prominent terms, the driver has not consented to - and cannot have 'breached' - an unknown contract because there is no contract capable of being established. The driver in that case (who had not seen any signs/lines) had NOT entered into a contract. The recorder made a clear finding of fact that the plaintiff, Miss Vine, did not see a sign because the area was not clearly marked as 'private land' and the signs were obscured/not adjacent to the car and could not have been seen and read from a driver's seat before parking.

So, for this appeal, I put this operator to strict proof of where the car was parked and (from photos taken in the same lighting conditions) how their signs appeared on that date, at that time, from the angle of the driver's perspective. Equally, I require this operator to show how the entrance signs appear from a driver's seat, not stock examples of 'the sign' in isolation/close-up. I submit that full terms simply cannot be read from a car before parking and mere 'stock examples' of close-ups of the (alleged) signage terms will not be sufficient to disprove this.












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igwd

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igwd

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