Horizon Parking Fraud

Fruitcake

Are you sure the hire/lease company didn't get the original NTK, and what you have received is the NTH, which may explain why it will have the same case number but different PCN number?

xlnc99

Please find attached the NTK

Fruitcake

That's an NTD, not an NTK. It also says they have the right to recover charges from the driver. There is no mention of pursuing the keeper.

That makes me think the hire company might have falsely passed on details of the alleged driver. I say falsely, because unless a member of the hire company was actually present at the material time, they cannot possibly know who was driving. The only information they have will be that of the hirer/lessee.

Alternatively, the PPC has been given the hirer/lessee's details but know they can't pursue them because they hasn't complied with the strict requirements of the PoFA with regards to a hire/lease vehicle, so have lied, and pretended that hirer/lessee = driver

xlnc99

Fruitcake said:

Are you sure the hire/lease company didn't get the original NTK, and what you have received is the NTH, which may explain why it will have the same case number but different PCN number?

I dont think so because i got two separate tickets for the same place one week apart. Both were given to me by the lease company via e-mail (details only). So i went and got them both cancelled. The first one i got cancelled quickly then the next ticket came about 1-2 weeks later and i got the cancelled.

Ive not heard anything about the first ticket but it says cancelled on the website. The second ticket also says cancelled on the website but i got this letter today.

xlnc99

Fruitcake said:

That's an NTD, not an NTK. It also says they have the right to recover charges from the driver. There is no mention of pursuing the keeper.

Im so confused right now? What does this all mean? Are they doing something legal then?

Fruitcake

You need to establish exactly what the hire/lease company have done. They should pass the hirer/lessee details to the PPC using the tear-off transfer slip at the bottom of the NTK, as has been a requirement of the PoFA for the last ten years. If they fail to do so, they leave themselves liable for the charge.
Irrespective of anything else, you should instruct them never to pay a PCN from an unregulated parking company, but to always use the transfer slip on the NTK.

xlnc99

I can confirm the hire company have not paid anything on my behalf or their own behalf. They are well known (Arval) and probably deal with these things 100 times a day from people with lease cars. I got the e-mail from Arval fines department about the details of the fine and i have copied and pasted below the final part:

What happens now?   We have contacted the issuing authority on your behalf and have asked them to send the fine direct to you, at the 'hirer' address listed above.This is because in your leasing contract you are responsible for either paying the fine/penalty amount or appealing upon receipt from the authority.   Important information you need to know   Please be aware that :     some authorities can take up to one calendar month to reissue a fine. If you don't receive the fine/charge notice after this time, then please contact the authority in question. If the address details above are incorrect you must contact us immediately so that we can update our system and resend the correct address information to the issuing authority listed above. When an authority reissues the fine the discounted payment period restarts. However, please be aware that if you make an appeal and you are unsuccessful, you may lose the opportunity to pay at the discounted rate.   • For any further information about the offence, please visit the issuing authorities' website via the link we have provided,   and enter the fine or penalty charge notice number. By accessing the website you may be able to:   • request a copy of the fine or penalty charge notice • view the evidence of contravention, including images from the Issuer • review your payment options • get details on how you can appeal   • Arval are unable to liaise with the authority regarding the offence once the liability has been transferred due to data protection   We have charged you or your company an administration fee of £12.50+VAT, in line with your contract with us. This fee will appear in your next monthly invoice.* If you ignore the fine and not pay it Arval will receive an escalation notice and we will pay the fine and recharge the cost to you to avoid any further escalation or legal proceedings.     We have also attached a frequently asked questions document which you might find useful. Click here to view the document     Best Wishes     Fines Team – Arval UK Ltd     *Arval will only look to refund the administration fee if you have successfully appealed your fine due to the authority having issued it in error. You will need to provide us with proof of this from the authority admitting their mistake, and upon receipt of this we will credit the administration fee. We will not look to refund the administration fee if your appeal was successful and cancelled as a gesture of goodwill.

Fruitcake

It is not a fine, nor a penalty, and the PPC are not an "authority."

What does your hire/lease agreement say about parking charge notices from unregulated private parking companies? What it doesn't say is just as important.

It does look as if Arval received the NTK, then sent the transfer slip to the PPC, who in turn should have issued a NTH. I still think they are trying it on by saying hirer/lessee = driver, and therefore have issued a NTD to the hirer/lessee in the hope you fall for the scam and pay up.
I think this is why it is one case number but two PCN numbers. One for the NTK, and a different one for the NTH dressed up as a NTD to make it look like it is completely different so they can have a second bite of the scam-pie.

Coupon-mad

The date on the NTK you received is 21st July so it was probably generated before Tesco got the first number cancelled.

But because it is still showing as due on the website, take a copy of it to Tesco and ask them to cancel this too as it is about the same incident but has slipped through the net based on the bad luck of the date when liability was transferred.

xlnc99

@Fruitcake

To be honest, these companies have a standard agreement about fines and parking tickets, speeding tickets etc. They dont distinguish from the regulated to unregulated. ITs generic that all fines etc are your responsibility and if you dont pay then Arval will pay on your behalf and you will have to pay Arval back.

I see now. It make sense. They went first to Arval and now using a different PCN number coming to me direct with the same fine knowing full well its been cancelled but because its a different name and address, they trying their luck again.

Shocking scam artists. Anything for a quick buck. Imagine how many people fall for it and pay up!