Next step in PCN challenge?

ReadySteadyMove

Hello all, hoping someone can suggest what my next step should be re. a PCN I received. I've read many of the threads so far, but I came to this site after I've already done some of the things suggested best not to do.

So, PCN letter was (apparently) sent by Euro Parking Services in April for a parking infringement that happened less than 14 days before - so in right timeframe if sent as stated. I didn't see it - there's a good chance it did arrive and I disposed of it with lots of other stuff re. local election etc. I was unwell at this time also (which I let the EPS - PPC know with to evidence to confirm this as mitigation).

A final reminder was sent a month after date stated for first PCN. I didn't open this straight away as it didn't look particularly important, so got a bit of a shock when I did open it as outside dates for appeal etc. Letter stated if wanting to appeal outside of the timeframe, an appeal for exceptional circumstance must be made in writing. So, I wrote a very hasty letter to say I did want to appeal and would send supporting evidence when I had it. I also admitted I was the driver and included my signature! Having read posts I now know this was an error. I understand why best not to admit being driver. Wondering what issue with including signature???

Unsurprisingly the appeal was unsuccessful. Reason I appealed is that the method of payment had changed in the car park - somewhere I've been parking for over many many years and always paid when it was cash operated. Changed to card and I did not have a card. I didn't stay to shop but because I'd pfaffed about before going to machine and then loitered to see if someone else would come along and I could give them cash to pay, they say I parked without paying - outside timescale for noticing couldn't pay and leaving immediately.

The car park is one related to a small number of mainly independent shops several of which have changed hands recently. And it was not one of these I'd planned to shop at - mentioned that in my letter also so, I don't think complaining to the shop staff/management will be successful. I did speak to one and he wasn't particularly encouraging/helpful re. exsisting PCN. Helpful only re avoiding future ones...

There reply to appeal letter states they will not accept any further appeals. I don't know if this means I have missed window for IAS appeal - though reading on here seems appealing to IAS is waste of time. So, wondering what next step should be?

I have no issue with not paying and with going to court. Wondering what the timescale for this is usually? And also what is the likely timescale for balliffs turning up at my door if that were to happen? Are we talking weeks? Month or two or several months?

Thank you

Coupon-mad

Just ignore them now.  NO TRYING IAS.

Sadly, as you suspect, you mucked it up, because EPS don't use POFA wording.  Regardless of the 14 days, they can't hold a keeper liable. But if someone appeals blabbing about being the driver, they throw the POFA protection in the bin.

Anyone in England/Wales has up to six years to sue.  So the max time is six years for them to litigate and typically they might take a year or more. So keep ALL letters and if you move house you MUST TELL THEM.  Never let a PPC hold onto an old address as that way a secret CCJ lies.

Apart from that, no paying, no getting scared by laughable debt letters.

IMPORTANT:
And bookmark this thread (below) and set up email alerts for bookmarked threads in your Profile:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6333989/mse-parking-ticket-appeals-guide-feedback#latest

Read the posts from this week and you will see why.

We need you not to disappear!

You will not want to miss out on being heard in the Public Consultation.

Umkomaas

You might get debt collector letters next, which can be ignored. They might pester for a few months. See NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, fourth post. 

This stage might be followed by a Letter of Claim which should be responded to, not ignored. See NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, second post.

After that it could be a formal court claim from the Northampton CCBC, which will need to be taken seriously and dealt with as in the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, second post, in conjunction with the Template Defence Announcement - one of the 'stickies' at the top of the forum index. 

No bailiffs can turn up before a court case, the only possibility would be after a court case you lose, you fail to pay the judgment and the PPC applies to the court for enforcement.  Just not going to happen, is it?

Timescale - any time between the date of the parking event and 2028 (6 years - Statute of Limitations), more likely a few months after the debt collectors give up with their silly letters and empty threats. 

Not_A_Hope

You will receive several threatening but useless letters from debt recovery agents which you can ignore. Eventually you will receive a Letter Before Action threatening court if you do not pay within 30 days. At this point you should begin to act if you are going to defend the claim. Read the Newbies thread for what to expect. This will take weeks or months but they have up to 6 years to pursue their claim.

Eventually they may pay the court to issue a claim in the hope it scares you into coughing up. When you defend their claim in court there will be no bailiffs involved. If the judge should find in favour of the claimant you should pay whatever (often less than their claim) in the timescales stated (usually 30 day). Chances are with a good defence and witness statement the PPC will drop the claim before it goes for a hearing or they will lose in court. 

ReadySteadyMove

Coupon-mad said:

Just ignore them now.  NO TRYING IAS.

Sadly, as you suspect, you mucked it up, because EPS don't use POFA wording.  Regardless of the 14 days, they can't hold a keeper liable. But if someone appeals blabbing about being the driver, they throw the POFA protection in the bin.

Anyone in England/Wales has up to six years to sue.  So the max time is six years for them to litigate and typically they might take a year or more. So keep ALL letters and if you move house you MUST TELL THEM.  Never let a PPC hold onto an old address as that way a secret CCJ lies.

Apart from that, no paying, no getting scared by laughable debt letters.

IMPORTANT:
And bookmark this thread (below) and set up email alerts for bookmarked threads in your Profile:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6333989/mse-parking-ticket-appeals-guide-feedback#latest

Read the posts from this week and you will see why.

We need you not to disappear!

You will not want to miss out on being heard in the Public Consultation.

Thanks Coupon-mad I won't disappear, though I may go quiet for a while as I go off grid for a few weeks occassionally. I will reappear again though...

I'm selling my house and moving - possibly to Europe, and will def tell them I'm moving as don't want them hassling buyers of house or car. But want to be clear there is no risk that balliffs/debt collectors could come in next few weeks or months when estate agents are doing viewings?

I know they can't break in but can debt collectors take stuff if let in before a court case

Thank you so very much!

ReadySteadyMove

Not_A_Hope said:

You will receive several threatening but useless letters from debt recovery agents which you can ignore. Eventually you will receive a Letter Before Action threatening court if you do not pay within 30 days. At this point you should begin to act if you are going to defend the claim. Read the Newbies thread for what to expect. This will take weeks or months but they have up to 6 years to pursue their claim.

Eventually they may pay the court to issue a claim in the hope it scares you into coughing up. When you defend their claim in court there will be no bailiffs involved. If the judge should find in favour of the claimant you should pay whatever (often less than their claim) in the timescales stated (usually 30 day). Chances are with a good defence and witness statement the PPC will drop the claim before it goes for a hearing or they will lose in court. 

Thanks Not_A_Hope, I will get reading. Also wonder about time I'll have to respond. I'm away for 3 weeks at end of month. I evidence of being away - tickets etc. allow extra time for replying if not received before I go?

thanks

Trainerman

NO no and no. UNLESS a Judge says you owe them,. there is no debt. So, as said above, no Court= no bailiffs

ReadySteadyMove

Umkomaas said:

You might get debt collector letters next, which can be ignored. They might pester for a few months. See NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, fourth post. 

This stage might be followed by a Letter of Claim which should be responded to, not ignored. See NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, second post.

After that it could be a formal court claim from the Northampton CCBC, which will need to be taken seriously and dealt with as in the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, second post, in conjunction with the Template Defence Announcement - one of the 'stickies' at the top of the forum index. 

No bailiffs can turn up before a court case, the only possibility would be after a court case you lose, you fail to pay the judgment and the PPC applies to the court for enforcement.  Just not going to happen, is it?

Timescale - any time between the date of the parking event and 2028 (6 years - Statute of Limitations), more likely a few months after the debt collectors give up with their silly letters and empty threats. 

Ok, thanks Umkomaas. Should have read this one fully before posting more questions to cuponmad! Now I'm clear (I think/hope) they can't take stuff before court case... I read CAB info which suggested they can take stuff if let in so was concerned!!!

ReadySteadyMove

Trainerman said:

NO no and no. UNLESS a Judge says you owe them,. there is no debt. So, as said above, no Court= no bailiffs

Thanks so much Trainerman, that's a great relief. I had though it must be the case, as seems ludicrous so much of this, but a lot of misinformation out there. So very pleased I found this board, thanks all.

Coupon-mad

Now I'm clear (I think/hope) they can't take stuff before court case.
They cannot even come knocking.

Even if you go 'off grid' please do check here weekly and do the Consultation.  All voices are absolutely needed to put the final nail in the coffin of the inflated debt recovery fakery, and to secure lower levels of parking charges.

ReadySteadyMove

Coupon-mad said:

Now I'm clear (I think/hope) they can't take stuff before court case.
They cannot even come knocking.

Even if you go 'off grid' please do check here weekly and do the Consultation.  All voices are absolutely needed to put the final nail in the coffin of the inflated debt recovery fakery, and to secure lower levels of parking charges.

Hi couponmad, I'll check in when I can, weekly won't always be possible - e.g. when on retreat somewhere without signal. I will check in before I go on such a trip and see what's

happening/let you know. being part of the challenge/doing the consultation and will do my best to make sure I am part of it.