EV Discussion thread

ABrass

Krakkkers said:

Porsche Taycan and Audi e tron GT both come with 2 speed manual shift gearbox.

They have the paddle shifters, which for DVLA purposes make them automatic as does the lexus. The absurd Ioniq only simulates an automatic gearbox, so still not a manual.

Other than Formula E cars none would require a manual license. Formula E cars aren't road legal so...

Manual licenses are going to disappear in the future. The only question is how long it takes to become as rare as a tracks licence.

Martyn1981

Spies said:

Krakkkers said:

Veteransaver said:

JKenH said:

I would take this survey by Gridserve with a pinch of salt. 1.6m drivers take the driving test every year and about  700k pass so if a quarter of these new drivers are going to go out and buy a used EV then that’s around 175k sales a year or 50% more than the total used EV  transactions in 2023. 

Half of learners want lessons in EVs - and it's going to kill-off the manual gearbox

Nearly a quarter (24 per cent) said they planning to celebrate passing by getting their first electric car.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-13136391/Half-learners-want-lessons-EVs-going-kill-manual-gearbox.html

It's going to be increasingly difficult to learn to drive in a manual once petrol/diesel cars are phased out anyway.
I imagine that if you really want a manual licence it will just be an add on like a CBT or something where you go off to some specialist centre and drive an old classic

There are electric cars with manual and auto gearboxes.

Which fully electric car has a manual gearbox? 

Hiya, I forget the make, possibly Hyundai, but there is a BEV (or manufacturer option) for a manual simulator*, specifically for driving school cars, so that the learner gets a full licence in countries (like the UK) where learning in a BEV/auto would get you a reduced licence.

No idea how popular, or not, these have been.

*I understand these are different to the fake/play manuals offered by some BEV's, as they simulate the effects of rising revs, and the need to change gears.


With regard to gear ratios for BEV's, I don't pretend to understand this, but I've read that efficiency doesn't really change with gear ratios? I think it's to do with the high and constant torque of an electric motor, so a different gear ratio would change the rpms of the motor, but the energy used would be the same/similar. I think I understand that argument in theory, but no idea if it's correct.

A gear change may be necessary for max speed, as we get into the 150mph+ range, but Tesla got around this with the S Plaid, by building a motor than can spin to even higher rpm's.

Also, another trick that can be used by BEV's is to have more than one motor, powering different axles. That way a dual motor car (or the Tesla semi with 3 (I think) motors), can have them running a different ratio gear reduction. That way, when you don't need a lot of power, it can be directed through the appropriate motor/gear.


One thought I do have, is about learning to drive in a BEV with one-pedal driving. Like all of us (I assume) my brain has been trained to instinctively flip my right foot to the brake pedal when something untoward happens. I'm sure all of us, have done the brake pedal stab at some point in our lives, whilst sitting in the passenger seat.

So, I wonder if the reduced need to use a brake pedal (I feel like I've 'failed'    these days if I use the brake pedal even once whilst driving) will reduce new drivers instinctive brake pedal reaction. And once again, I have absolutely no idea if this will be a thing, or not.

Veteransaver

Krakkkers said:

Veteransaver said:

JKenH said:

I would take this survey by Gridserve with a pinch of salt. 1.6m drivers take the driving test every year and about  700k pass so if a quarter of these new drivers are going to go out and buy a used EV then that’s around 175k sales a year or 50% more than the total used EV  transactions in 2023. 

Half of learners want lessons in EVs - and it's going to kill-off the manual gearbox

Nearly a quarter (24 per cent) said they planning to celebrate passing by getting their first electric car.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-13136391/Half-learners-want-lessons-EVs-going-kill-manual-gearbox.html

It's going to be increasingly difficult to learn to drive in a manual once petrol/diesel cars are phased out anyway.
I imagine that if you really want a manual licence it will just be an add on like a CBT or something where you go off to some specialist centre and drive an old classic

There are electric cars with manual and auto gearboxes.

For the purposes of the driving licence a manual car has a clutch pedal. That is what defines them and makes learning to drive a manual more difficult than an automatic hence a different class of licence.
No EV will ever have a clutch pedal.

Krakkkers

Lexus UX300e

Martyn1981

Veteransaver said:

Krakkkers said:

Veteransaver said:

JKenH said:

I would take this survey by Gridserve with a pinch of salt. 1.6m drivers take the driving test every year and about  700k pass so if a quarter of these new drivers are going to go out and buy a used EV then that’s around 175k sales a year or 50% more than the total used EV  transactions in 2023. 

Half of learners want lessons in EVs - and it's going to kill-off the manual gearbox

Nearly a quarter (24 per cent) said they planning to celebrate passing by getting their first electric car.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-13136391/Half-learners-want-lessons-EVs-going-kill-manual-gearbox.html

It's going to be increasingly difficult to learn to drive in a manual once petrol/diesel cars are phased out anyway.
I imagine that if you really want a manual licence it will just be an add on like a CBT or something where you go off to some specialist centre and drive an old classic

There are electric cars with manual and auto gearboxes.

For the purposes of the driving licence a manual car has a clutch pedal. That is what defines them and makes learning to drive a manual more difficult than an automatic hence a different class of licence.
No EV will ever have a clutch pedal.

Correct about needing a clutch, but they can have a pretend gearbox and a clutch that's needed to operate said gearbox, for driving licence purposes.

Not sure this is what I was thinking of, but an example from 2021:

BYD Creates E3 EV With Manual Trans To Teach Others How To Drive

But again, you are correct, no BEV actually needs a clutch pedal.

Veteransaver

Martyn1981 said:

Veteransaver said:

Krakkkers said:

Veteransaver said:

JKenH said:

I would take this survey by Gridserve with a pinch of salt. 1.6m drivers take the driving test every year and about  700k pass so if a quarter of these new drivers are going to go out and buy a used EV then that’s around 175k sales a year or 50% more than the total used EV  transactions in 2023. 

Half of learners want lessons in EVs - and it's going to kill-off the manual gearbox

Nearly a quarter (24 per cent) said they planning to celebrate passing by getting their first electric car.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-13136391/Half-learners-want-lessons-EVs-going-kill-manual-gearbox.html

It's going to be increasingly difficult to learn to drive in a manual once petrol/diesel cars are phased out anyway.
I imagine that if you really want a manual licence it will just be an add on like a CBT or something where you go off to some specialist centre and drive an old classic

There are electric cars with manual and auto gearboxes.

For the purposes of the driving licence a manual car has a clutch pedal. That is what defines them and makes learning to drive a manual more difficult than an automatic hence a different class of licence.
No EV will ever have a clutch pedal.

Correct about needing a clutch, but they can have a pretend gearbox and a clutch that's needed to operate said gearbox, for driving licence purposes.

Not sure this is what I was thinking of, but an example from 2021:

BYD Creates E3 EV With Manual Trans To Teach Others How To Drive

But again, you are correct, no BEV actually needs a clutch pedal.

Interesting, but it must have some sort of simulation as it isn't possible to "stall" an electric motor. 

silvercar

My local train station offered free charging, you only paid for parking, this is ending tomorrow when the charge becomes 60p/KWH.

Will be interesting to see how occupied the 4 charger spots now are. 

I posted on this thread a while back, pondering who actually pays for the electricity. The explanation on the podpoint app for the introduction of charging says “the impact of covid on train ticket sales and revenue, which is passed on to government to run the railways, means it is no longer sustainable to continue with a free service”. 

Odd words because the railways aren’t nationalised, so it points to the railways having paid for it upto now.

Arthurian

I learnt to drive in a manual car, and have driven manual cars for many decades, no problem. A few years ago, I had a driving lesson in an automatic, and it was clear to me that I should hang on to manual cars for as long as possible! I hated it, and I was clumsy when slowing down to join roundabouts. It felt very unnatural and difficult, and I expected the car to cut out at every junction.  Yet I rely on having a car.  Which EV would be the best for someone like me?

CKhalvashi

Arthurian said:

I learnt to drive in a manual car, and have driven manual cars for many decades, no problem. A few years ago, I had a driving lesson in an automatic, and it was clear to me that I should hang on to manual cars for as long as possible! I hated it, and I was clumsy when slowing down to join roundabouts. It felt very unnatural and difficult, and I expected the car to cut out at every junction.  Yet I rely on having a car.  Which EV would be the best for someone like me?

I'm on the opposite end.

My last manual car was an '07' plate S-Max. I haven't owned that since 2011, but regularly drove manual vehicles until quite recently. I then had another S-Max, an XF, an XE and then settled on the Ioniq which due to personal and family circumstances I may or may not be about to replace with a 77kWh ID3 or similar.

OH has an Enyaq, before that had a Yeti with the DSG from 2014 and before that had an Evoque for about 2 years which was automatic too, so we both changed in 2011/12.

Automatics are just as good, if not better, than manuals at efficiency now and I prefer to drive them in honesty, but get that this is a preference thing.

michaels

Krakkkers said:

Lexus UX300e

Driven one, no clutch - and did you see the real world efficiency/range from a 72kwh battery for what is smaller than a Nissan Leaf?  Shocking.