EV Discussion thread

Martyn1981

A BEV Rx does the same job, and seems like a good idea (to me), and a great introduction for those a bit scared of a BEV, but wanting more than a PHEV.

All Nissan have done, is remove your ability to fuel it with leccy. Seems like a weird backwards move to me, since it offers less choice, not more.

That said, maybe Nissan have a good reason. Perhaps the cost of the charger, inverter etc etc, gives them a large enough cost saving.

michaels

Martyn1981 said:

A BEV Rx does the same job, and seems like a good idea (to me), and a great introduction for those a bit scared of a BEV, but wanting more than a PHEV.

All Nissan have done, is remove your ability to fuel it with leccy. Seems like a weird backwards move to me, since it offers less choice, not more.

That said, maybe Nissan have a good reason. Perhaps the cost of the charger, inverter etc etc, gives them a large enough cost saving.

They do a Qashqai, one of the best selling cars in the UK.  In your brain imagine someone walking into a dealership who would otherwise have purchased a petrol (or previously diesel) Qashqai and instead buys one of these as it is a similar price not 10-20k more for the same size Ariya.

Yes we would prefer they got a BEV or possibly a PHEV (we know a lot of these are never run on electric) but for people who were never going to go for either of those options then this is (imho) better than them simply buying the petrol version especially for local pollution/fuel efficiency with the welcome side benefit that it is more likely to make them consider BEV next time.

Grumpy_chap

michaels said:

They do a Qashqai, one of the best selling cars in the UK.  In your brain imagine someone walking into a dealership who would otherwise have purchased a petrol (or previously diesel) Qashqai and instead buys one of these as it is a similar price not 10-20k more for the same size Ariya

Hmmmm.
That Quashqai with the e-power is not cheap though.
It's not a similar price to a regular Quashqai.
I mentioned upthread when I was feeling rather smug after buying the TM3 and Mrs G-C speaking with one of her friends who were ordering the Quashqai e-power for more than we paid plus will suffer the extra VED for 5 years.

Martyn1981

michaels said:

Martyn1981 said:

A BEV Rx does the same job, and seems like a good idea (to me), and a great introduction for those a bit scared of a BEV, but wanting more than a PHEV.

All Nissan have done, is remove your ability to fuel it with leccy. Seems like a weird backwards move to me, since it offers less choice, not more.

That said, maybe Nissan have a good reason. Perhaps the cost of the charger, inverter etc etc, gives them a large enough cost saving.

They do a Qashqai, one of the best selling cars in the UK.  In your brain imagine someone walking into a dealership who would otherwise have purchased a petrol (or previously diesel) Qashqai and instead buys one of these as it is a similar price not 10-20k more for the same size Ariya.

Yes we would prefer they got a BEV or possibly a PHEV (we know a lot of these are never run on electric) but for people who were never going to go for either of those options then this is (imho) better than them simply buying the petrol version especially for local pollution/fuel efficiency with the welcome side benefit that it is more likely to make them consider BEV next time.

I'm a bit lost on your point. Going back to Shinytop's point, as I read it, the question was whether the added complexity negates the fuel gains from running the ICE at it's most efficient. I suspect he's right. He might not be, but it's a valid point. [Edit - Further supporting Shinytop's point, is that the e-power Qashqai appears to weigh 200kg (~14%) more than the 'normal' petrol car.]

So what exactly is this vehicle? Well to me, it's a 'normal' BEV RX, just with the option to plug it in removed. I don't understand why that would appeal to more people, it seems to offer less choice, since the plug-in part doesn't need to be used if you don't want to.

Maybe I'm missing something, and not understanding your point, but you say they may get a BEV next time, but Shirley this is a BEV, a BEV Rx, just (as I said previously) with the plug-in ability removed. Think about it, it's a BEV that can only charge via it's own petrol generator. So less choice, not more?


Edit - Just checked the prices, and it looks like the Qashqai e-power starts at £34k (base Qashqai petrol starts at £27k), whilst the Ariya starts at £39.6k. So a significant price difference, I agree, but not the £10k to £20k you suggest.

But again, I'm not really concerned about petrol 'v's BEV, I'm somewhat baffled as to why anyone would build a BEV Rx, but exclude the ability to plug-in.

michaels

Looking at the price list the e-power seems to cost 2k (6%) more than the same spec petrol auto (4k more than the manual).

I wonder which has the better margins?

1961Nick

Mazda's Plug-in MX30 R-EV would seem like the best option for anyone unsure about owning a BEV but wanting to experience one. It has a fully electric drivetrain with a (slightly underwhelming) 17kWh battery. The generator is powered by a small constant speed rotary engine when required. Electric only range is just over 50 miles. The rotary engine sounds like a good option because it's naturally vibration free, quiet, small & lightweight.

I think Mazda have missed a trick here because a 100 mile electric only range would have made it perfect imo.

michaels

1961Nick said:

Mazda's Plug-in MX30 R-EV would seem like the best option for anyone unsure about owning a BEV but wanting to experience one. It has a fully electric drivetrain with a (slightly underwhelming) 17kWh battery. The generator is powered by a small constant speed rotary engine when required. Electric only range is just over 50 miles. The rotary engine sounds like a good option because it's naturally vibration free, quiet, small & lightweight.

I think Mazda have missed a trick here because a 100 mile electric only range would have made it perfect imo.

Interesting they have actually built this, had been talked about for a while, will google for real world efficiency, price etc

Edit claimed 29mpg on petrol operation - ouch

QrizB

1961Nick said:

I think Mazda have missed a trick here because a 100 mile electric only range would have made it perfect imo.

I occasionally wonder if you could put a rack of Pylontechs in the back of a BEV to extend the range. Sadly the voltage and charge/discharge characteristics are wildly different to what a BEV needs, but it's a fun thought experiment!

A US3000C could add ten miles of range, so five of them would give you your 100-mile Mazda...

michaels

QrizB said:

1961Nick said:

I think Mazda have missed a trick here because a 100 mile electric only range would have made it perfect imo.

I occasionally wonder if you could put a rack of Pylontechs in the back of a BEV to extend the range. Sadly the voltage and charge/discharge characteristics are wildly different to what a BEV needs, but it's a fun thought experiment!

A US3000C could add ten miles of range, so five of them would give you your 100-mile Mazda...

Course you can for a Nissan Leaf.  When prices were mad a year ago it just about made sense - now it is cheaper just to buy a longer range model

products | MUXSAN

EricMears

shinytop said:

I saw this about Nissan E Power in an ad that popped up.  Is there any point in this?  It will give an EV-like driving experience but nearly all the propulsion is ultimately provided by an IC engine.  Wouldn't the ICE to EV conversion negate any gains?  

https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/INNOVATION/TECHNOLOGY/ARCHIVE/E_POWER/

I couldn't see what size battery the Qashqai E has.

I agree with others that making it a 'plug hybrid' rather than a so-called 'self charger' would have been a huge improvement but I'd also suggest that scrapping the heavy ICE and a heavy multi-speed gearbox might save almost as much weight as a sensible sized battery would need.

However,  I really don't care what they do with it : I'm quite happy with my EV.