EV Discussion thread

1961Nick

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

everything on an EV appears to be bespoke, including tyres and windscreens.”

I don't understand that comment.

The tyres on my car are round black rubber rings just like every other car.  A quick online search reveals I can get tyres of the same size 235/45r18 for under £50 if I so choose.  The like-for-like Michelin tyres as the car was supplied new will cost more.  But, the tyres are not particularly bespoke.

Windscreens, on the other hand, are bespoke for every model of car from every manufacturer.  Some manufacturers even have different windscreens for different trim levels in the mode line-up to reflect varying tint, heated elements, insulation specifications etc.  I fail to see how windscreens for an EV are any more bespoke than windscreens for any other vehicle.

JKenH said:

I don’t understand why the imbalance between fleet and private purchasers would impact service standards. Any thoughts?

I assume this is not related to a difference between fleet and private purchasers for EV's.  If there is a shortage of servicing capacity for EV's, this would at the current time disproportionately impact fleet operators since the EV market penetration is higher for company cars than private cars.

The Tesla specific tyres - marked 'TO' - are readily available next day at all major fitting centres. 

Martyn1981

1961Nick said:

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

everything on an EV appears to be bespoke, including tyres and windscreens.”

I don't understand that comment.

The tyres on my car are round black rubber rings just like every other car.  A quick online search reveals I can get tyres of the same size 235/45r18 for under £50 if I so choose.  The like-for-like Michelin tyres as the car was supplied new will cost more.  But, the tyres are not particularly bespoke.

Windscreens, on the other hand, are bespoke for every model of car from every manufacturer.  Some manufacturers even have different windscreens for different trim levels in the mode line-up to reflect varying tint, heated elements, insulation specifications etc.  I fail to see how windscreens for an EV are any more bespoke than windscreens for any other vehicle.

JKenH said:

I don’t understand why the imbalance between fleet and private purchasers would impact service standards. Any thoughts?

I assume this is not related to a difference between fleet and private purchasers for EV's.  If there is a shortage of servicing capacity for EV's, this would at the current time disproportionately impact fleet operators since the EV market penetration is higher for company cars than private cars.

The Tesla specific tyres - marked 'TO' - are readily available next day at all major fitting centres. 

Sadly, we discovered this a couple of months ago, when in the space of a week, we got 4 punctures. 'Luckily' 3 where in the same tyre. So two new tyres at ~£200 each (255/45R19) fitted, after a one day wait. Cheaper makes are available.

Bit annoying, but first puncture in about 5yrs.

Grumpy_chap

1961Nick said:

The Tesla specific tyres - marked 'TO' - are readily available next day at all major fitting centres. 

Is that only for the "P" versions?
I have just been out to look at my tyres and cannot see the markings "TO" or "T0" anywhere - carefully checked all four tyres in case the light was making it hard to read.  All four tyres are marked "T2".
The next day wait could be inconvenient in some cases.  I assume, in that case, any standard tyres of the same size would fit and be suitable if you had to continue a journey.  Even if considered an interim solution (equivalent to a space-saver wheel) and cautious driving until the specific tyres are avaialble.

shinytop

I saw this about Nissan E Power in an ad that popped up.  Is there any point in this?  It will give an EV-like driving experience but nearly all the propulsion is ultimately provided by an IC engine.  Wouldn't the ICE to EV conversion negate any gains?  

https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/INNOVATION/TECHNOLOGY/ARCHIVE/E_POWER/

1961Nick

Grumpy_chap said:

1961Nick said:

The Tesla specific tyres - marked 'TO' - are readily available next day at all major fitting centres. 

Is that only for the "P" versions?
I have just been out to look at my tyres and cannot see the markings "TO" or "T0" anywhere - carefully checked all four tyres in case the light was making it hard to read.  All four tyres are marked "T2".
The next day wait could be inconvenient in some cases.  I assume, in that case, any standard tyres of the same size would fit and be suitable if you had to continue a journey.  Even if considered an interim solution (equivalent to a space-saver wheel) and cautious driving until the specific tyres are avaialble.

I've kept the best of the used ones just in case I need one the same day. The other side had a puncture so I changed the pair so it's good for another 5000 miles if I need it.

The Tesla original fitment markings have expanded T0, T1, T2...

The compound is designed to run at quite a high pressure to aid rolling efficiency so it's probably best to stick with the OE tyres.

Martyn1981

shinytop said:

I saw this about Nissan E Power in an ad that popped up.  Is there any point in this?  It will give an EV-like driving experience but nearly all the propulsion is ultimately provided by an IC engine.  Wouldn't the ICE to EV conversion negate any gains?  

https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/INNOVATION/TECHNOLOGY/ARCHIVE/E_POWER/

Well, that's a new one on me. At first I assumed it was a normal BEV Rx (range extender), where the ICE generates leccy, and the car drives on the electric motor, but this takes it one stage further and removes the plug-in part.

TBH I'm not 100% sure I'm reading that right, even though the graphic states 'No plug-in'. I'm doubting myself, as this sounds a bit crazy.

Just add the plug-in, and you have a 'normal' BEV Rx, but as you say, this negates most of the benefits.

Not sure if you lose all the gains, as the engine will be running at it's most efficient, but I'd be willing to bet a small amount of money that you're right. Of course you do get the benefits of regen, possibly higher levels of regen due to a larger battery, than a simple HEV, but again, I'm not sure those would outweigh (pun intended) all the extra ICE kit.

Maybe for use in areas where you're required to drive zero emissions, having charged the batt beforehand?

I would suggest, people get to enjoy a nicer BEV style drive, with the power delivery, smoothness etc etc, so maybe they have a point about that ....... but I'd suggest they sell those people a BEV?

Martyn1981

1961Nick said:

Grumpy_chap said:

1961Nick said:

The Tesla specific tyres - marked 'TO' - are readily available next day at all major fitting centres. 

Is that only for the "P" versions?
I have just been out to look at my tyres and cannot see the markings "TO" or "T0" anywhere - carefully checked all four tyres in case the light was making it hard to read.  All four tyres are marked "T2".
The next day wait could be inconvenient in some cases.  I assume, in that case, any standard tyres of the same size would fit and be suitable if you had to continue a journey.  Even if considered an interim solution (equivalent to a space-saver wheel) and cautious driving until the specific tyres are avaialble.

I've kept the best of the used ones just in case I need one the same day. The other side had a puncture so I changed the pair so it's good for another 5000 miles if I need it.

The Tesla original fitment markings have expanded T0, T1, T2...

The compound is designed to run at quite a high pressure to aid rolling efficiency so it's probably best to stick with the OE tyres.

That's a good idea.

I've got a space saver, just in case, but assume (dangerous I know) that overtime, the tyre fitters will start to stock these tyres once demand reaches the necessary level. Though, perhaps, the performance spec tyres may not reach the necessary levels.

Grumpy_chap

shinytop said:

I saw this about Nissan E Power in an ad that popped up.  Is there any point in this?  It will give an EV-like driving experience but nearly all the propulsion is ultimately provided by an IC engine.  Wouldn't the ICE to EV conversion negate any gains?  

https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/INNOVATION/TECHNOLOGY/ARCHIVE/E_POWER/

I think that is just fancy marketing for the hybrid power train available from Nissan.

It is different to the Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive (HSD) because it avoids the need for the planetary gear set that is required to allow both the motor and the engine to directly drive the driven axle. 
Toyota have previously licensed the use of their HSD to Nissan but that agreement is expired. 
I can only assume that either Toyota hold a patent on the planetary gear system, or Nissan decided the costs of developing their own for a product with limited life-cycle was simply not worth it given the evolution to fully electric is gathering pace.  If the latter, that would be a good thing I suppose.

The Nissan e-power cars are like range extenders with the plug deleted.

1961Nick

Martyn1981 said:

1961Nick said:

Grumpy_chap said:

1961Nick said:

The Tesla specific tyres - marked 'TO' - are readily available next day at all major fitting centres. 

Is that only for the "P" versions?
I have just been out to look at my tyres and cannot see the markings "TO" or "T0" anywhere - carefully checked all four tyres in case the light was making it hard to read.  All four tyres are marked "T2".
The next day wait could be inconvenient in some cases.  I assume, in that case, any standard tyres of the same size would fit and be suitable if you had to continue a journey.  Even if considered an interim solution (equivalent to a space-saver wheel) and cautious driving until the specific tyres are avaialble.

I've kept the best of the used ones just in case I need one the same day. The other side had a puncture so I changed the pair so it's good for another 5000 miles if I need it.

The Tesla original fitment markings have expanded T0, T1, T2...

The compound is designed to run at quite a high pressure to aid rolling efficiency so it's probably best to stick with the OE tyres.

That's a good idea.

I've got a space saver, just in case, but assume (dangerous I know) that overtime, the tyre fitters will start to stock these tyres once demand reaches the necessary level. Though, perhaps, the performance spec tyres may not reach the necessary levels.

Getting 20" Tesla tyres next day (Kwik Fit) hasn't been a problem - a lot easier in fact than getting the 19" tyres for the 435d it replaced.

michaels

shinytop said:

I saw this about Nissan E Power in an ad that popped up.  Is there any point in this?  It will give an EV-like driving experience but nearly all the propulsion is ultimately provided by an IC engine.  Wouldn't the ICE to EV conversion negate any gains?  

https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/INNOVATION/TECHNOLOGY/ARCHIVE/E_POWER/

Test drove an slower xtrail (big SUV). Have to say it was great, drove like an EV, didn't even notice the Rex cutting in and out. It is basically the Nissan version of the Prius technology but drives like a bev. It delivers better fuel consumption around town and sometimes zero emissions although like the Prius the battery is too small to reliably run emissions free in urban areas. MPG at highway speeds is worse than standard version.
Lots criticise this as not a real EV. I think this is wrong, it should be compared against a standard ice. I also think it may help people get more comfortable with moving to full EV than the Toyota system or even a phev.