EV Discussion thread

1961Nick

Exiled_Tyke said:

I don't think that's quite fair.  There's nothing to indicate there is normal commuting in these figures.  Running your own business it is quite conveivable to work from home and all mileage is to clients.   I don't think we are in a position to make such assumptions.   I still can't find a way that a personal purchase is advantageous though.

Just based on the following...

My car is an April 2021 model with 74,918 miles on it as of about an hour ago (probably 45k of those are business, my commute is about 85 miles round trip although I'm in the office only about 150 days last year), so my usage case may not be a 'normal' one, but it's always worth doing a second calculation.

Exiled_Tyke

Apologies.  I missed that.  Yep 150 trips a year to the office would count as commuting and so as you say are not allowable.   I hope therefore the 25k miles are on top of these otherwise there is a problem. 

JKenH

Mention was made when the SMMT figures for June came out that EVsales were dominated by fleet and business purchases and concern was expressed at the low upbtake of EVs by private buyers. Auto Express has now revealed the exact figures:  in June, 24,953 new EVs were supplied to business buyers, with just 6,747 private sales.That’s 21.3% of purchases by private buyers. Or to put it another way, just 8.5% of the 79,798 new cars sold to private buyers were EVs whereas they constituted 25.6% of sales to the Fleet and Business sector.

While the sales to fleets and businesses are strong the take up of EVs by private purchasers might be seen as disappointing and mirrors the malaise seen in the used EV market which of course is dominated by private buyers. In 3 years time as businesses and fleets dispose of their vehicles will demand for EVs among private buyers have risen or will there be a glut of used EVs on the market?

JKenH

Continuing the above theme and the bargains that consequently are available on the used EV market, EVM (Electric Vehicle Man) has just done a video in response to a challenge to buy a decent EV under £5k. He succeeded and bought a 2016 Renault Zoe (battery owned) with 35k miles for £4,400. That wasn’t a trade or auction sale but a private purchase through Autotrader. If anyone is interested here’s the link. https://youtu.be/PJ_zJBIa0Uo

Edit: correction - I just checked the mileage on the video. It is 35k not the 15k I originally recalled. The car is still under the Renault warranty, which apparently could be extended. 

1961Nick

JKenH said:

Mention was made when the SMMT figures for June came out that EVsales were dominated by fleet and business purchases and concern was expressed at the low upbtake of EVs by private buyers. Auto Express has now revealed the exact figures:  in June, 24,953 new EVs were supplied to business buyers, with just 6,747 private sales.That’s 21.3% of purchases by private buyers. Or to put it another way, just 8.5% of the 79,798 new cars sold to private buyers were EVs whereas they constituted 25.6% of sales to the Fleet and Business sector.

While the sales to fleets and businesses are strong the take up of EVs by private purchasers might be seen as disappointing and mirrors the malaise seen in the used EV market which of course is dominated by private buyers. In 3 years time as businesses and fleets dispose of their vehicles will demand for EVs among private buyers have risen or will there be a glut of used EVs on the market?

It's highly likely that the figures are skewed by SalSac schemes whereas in recent years the punitive BIK rates have skewed the figures in the opposite direction for ICE vehicles.

JKenH

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

Mention was made when the SMMT figures for June came out that EVsales were dominated by fleet and business purchases and concern was expressed at the low upbtake of EVs by private buyers. Auto Express has now revealed the exact figures:  in June, 24,953 new EVs were supplied to business buyers, with just 6,747 private sales.That’s 21.3% of purchases by private buyers. Or to put it another way, just 8.5% of the 79,798 new cars sold to private buyers were EVs whereas they constituted 25.6% of sales to the Fleet and Business sector.

While the sales to fleets and businesses are strong the take up of EVs by private purchasers might be seen as disappointing and mirrors the malaise seen in the used EV market which of course is dominated by private buyers. In 3 years time as businesses and fleets dispose of their vehicles will demand for EVs among private buyers have risen or will there be a glut of used EVs on the market?

It's highly likely that the figures are skewed by SalSac schemes whereas in recent years the punitive BIK rates have skewed the figures in the opposite direction for ICE vehicles.

I would agree with that. I also believe some businesses may be moving to EVs, not only for financial but also for ESG reasons. It’s a while since I was in business but I believe now to do business with certain companies you have to tick a number of ESG boxes. Switching your company car policy to EVs, given the financial incentives on top, is an easy fix for a company that might be struggling to demonstrate their green credentials.

michaels

JKenH said:

Mention was made when the SMMT figures for June came out that EVsales were dominated by fleet and business purchases and concern was expressed at the low upbtake of EVs by private buyers. Auto Express has now revealed the exact figures:  in June, 24,953 new EVs were supplied to business buyers, with just 6,747 private sales.That’s 21.3% of purchases by private buyers. Or to put it another way, just 8.5% of the 79,798 new cars sold to private buyers were EVs whereas they constituted 25.6% of sales to the Fleet and Business sector.

While the sales to fleets and businesses are strong the take up of EVs by private purchasers might be seen as disappointing and mirrors the malaise seen in the used EV market which of course is dominated by private buyers. In 3 years time as businesses and fleets dispose of their vehicles will demand for EVs among private buyers have risen or will there be a glut of used EVs on the market?

Not sure the problem is too many fleet EVs per se, but more the mix of vehicles.  The SH market I suspect is more looking at cars that cost about 15-30k new (fiestas/puma, focus, mondeo/kuga) which would then be 7-15k second hand and instead there are not so many of these (not just EV tax credits but also lower margin so were deprioritised for manufacture during the chip shortage) - a glut of EVs (not just Tesla) that have list prices of 40-60k won't fill the market for 7-15k 3 year old cars unless they suffer a major depreciation hit....

ABrass

The secondhand EV market has always been dysfunctional.

Previously it has been too small with a tiny supply compared to new vehicle sales. That meant secondhand prices were over inflated due to scarcity.

Now we have dysfunction because the price of new EVs was slashed around the same time the first batch of used fleet vehicles hit the market. That leaves people unwilling to realise the loss by dropping the price.

This will pass.

Petriix

Hopefully the rapid depreciation will continue and I'll be able to trade in my MG5 for £5k next year and pick up a 2 year old ID Buzz for £20k.

michaels

ABrass said:

The secondhand EV market has always been dysfunctional.

Previously it has been too small with a tiny supply compared to new vehicle sales. That meant secondhand prices were over inflated due to scarcity.

Now we have dysfunction because the price of new EVs was slashed around the same time the first batch of used fleet vehicles hit the market. That leaves people unwilling to realise the loss by dropping the price.

This will pass.

Most SH EVs will be those coming of business leases due to BIK.  Problem is these will not be in the same place in the market as traditional second hand ex lease cars (fiesta/focus/mondeo) that were 15-30k new and 5-15k at 3 years old.  These cheaper lower margin cars will be in very short supply due to having been deprioritised during the chip shortage, instead we will have a bunch of EVs that sold new for 40-60k, lots of Teslas but also other makes that were sold because the low bik made them affordable for fleets.  If they are worth the normal 40% at 3 years old that is 16-24k which won't coincide with demand for used cars - especially as this market is probably less likely than the new market to be people with off road parking.