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Getting change of address sorted for PCNs

Hi all,

Read through bits of the forum I've searched out and newbies guide (great resources - thank you) and looking for advice on getting two PCNs that I discovered are out there, sent to my new address before they are escalated to court. I have only just discovered these through my old landlord letting me know.

Timeline:
  • Late November 21 - 2 PCNs (same day - couple of hours apart as returned to area) from Capital Car Park Control (CCPC). This related to a van I was hiring and returned to the hire company that day.
  • December 21 - change of address confirmed with DVLA - although as this was a couple of weeks after I moved, the PCNs had already been produced at my old address.
  • June 22 - fast forward and old landlord has now received two letters from DCBL Ltd (not Legal) stating "Notice of Intended Legal Action" - sent to my old address. These are dated from mid May 22.
Quite surprised to receive this and well beyond the timeline for a POPLA appeal so I believe the next steps are:
  • Complain to the landowner
  • Send a SAR to CCPC - should I also send a SAR to DCBL?
Having read to not ring the debt collection agency on this forum a number of times, is there anything else apart from the SAR I should do to get the letters sent onwards to my new address? I'm too late for a Royal Mail redirection now as well as it has been longer than 6 months at this new address.
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Comments

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,290
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    - should I also send a SAR to DCBL?

    No. But you do tell them and the PPC to erase the old address.
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  • Hello again - bringing this up as the expected Letter Before Claim has now arrived.

    Lots of reading to do on the forum - especially around notice to hirers and the information that parking companies must include as part of this.

    One question I have for now is the e-mail to the solicitors (DCB Legal) - is this just literally an acknowledgement of receiving the claim and the following:
    (a) I am seeking debt advice but I deny any debt and the case must be put 'on hold' for not less than 30 days under the PAP for debt claims 2017.
    (b) I have sent your client a SAR (I have done this - back in June to preempt any claims that did come through)

    Then we wait an additional period for the actual court claim letter to come through?
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,085
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    The suggestion in the NEWBIES thread is that you use the legalbeagles example and a link is provided to it.
  • Isn't the legalbeagles example in the Newbies thread (post #2) just for SARs?

    That's the SAR template I used back in June to get the information from CCPC - I'm now just trying to send something to DCB Legal to acknowledge their Letter Before Claim in case there is a standard template to send. Or I just send an e-mail with the two points mentioned above?

    Rob's list of templates also given at the bottom of post #2 no longer works as the links on the legalbeagles site just send you to a dead link.
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 57,988
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    edited 24 November 2022 at 11:40AM
    Just send an email with the two points you mentioned. 

    Use the time before the claim arrives to dig out your former lease/AST/property rental agreement/head lease to see what it says about parking, PPCs, PCNs, paying PPCs/PCNs, court, and the right to quiet enjoyment. What it doesn't say is just as important.

    Get photos of the site and signage if possible.

    Complain to the landowner, managing agent, and your MP.
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  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,085
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    Lought_TA said:
    Isn't the legalbeagles example in the Newbies thread (post #2) just for SARs?
    Yes, you are right. Sorry, my mistake.
  • Great - thank you both Fruitcake & KeithP. I will send off the e-mail and other complaints and come back if the actual claim letter comes through.
  • Ok - so the expected happened and a court claim letter has come through. It's our old friends DAB Legal.

    AOS has been sent and received:

    A claim was issued against you on 01/02/2023

    Your acknowledgment of service was submitted on 07/02/2023

    Your acknowledgment of service was received on 07/02/2023


    I had already researched a bit and had a fairly decent idea about my defence so have drafted the following below. Using the template in the newbies thread - although I did start writing more of a Witness Statement so have tried to cut it down.


    Paragraph 1 - as per newbies template

    The facts as known to the Defendant:

    2. It is admitted that the Defendant was the hirer and driver of the vehicle in question.

    3. In November 2021, the Defendant had hired a vehicle to move their belongings out of a flat in the Millennium Village into an external storage site during the process of moving out of the flat on [street name]. This involved loading various belongings down from a third floor flat into the vehicle in question and then driving to the external storage site.

    4. The Defendant then returned to their flat later in the day to load larger items into the vehicle before exiting the site again. Upon returning a second time, the vehicle was parked in their designated parking space in the Moseley Row car park.

    5. As part of the Defendant’s tenancy agreement, a parking space within the Moseley Row car park was allowed which was accessible by a secure fob. Further access into School Square was also permitted by a secure fob with an entry/exit barrier at the end of School Bank Road to stop access during peak school times.

    6. Having lived on the site since 2015 and gained access to the School Square area in a vehicle when required, the Defendant did not expect any change to access arrangements onto School Square and any changes had not been communicated to the Defendant. Therefore at no point did I believe permission to enter School Square was needed.

    7. The Defendant has since returned to the site to carry out research on foot and observed a “Permit Holders only” sign at the barrier with further information to be found on other signs. This is therefore forbidding and does not offer any right to park with no alternative option.

    8. Information around ANPR and potential changes to entry permissions to the site were in extremely small font that a driver would not be able to observe. This goes against The British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice which states “Signs must be conspicuous and legible and written in intelligible language so that they are easy to see, read and understand.”

    9. Further research found a more detailed sign from the Claimant which was not in line with a driver’s view whilst driving into the area in question. Furthermore, a tiny font states you must be pre-registered as having a valid parking permit but does not state how or from where you can obtain a permit and pre-register. It also does not say how much a permit costs or indeed if there is any charge for a permit.

    10. In addition to non-compliant signage, the operator has failed to deliver a Notice to Hirer that was fully compliant with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA).

    11. The relevant provisions concerning hire vehicles are set out in Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 of POFA with the conditions that the Creditor must meet in order to be able to hold the hirer liable for the charge being set out in Paragraph 14. This includes a number of key documents (listed in Paragraph 13 (2)) that the Creditor has failed to provide. Therefore, the Creditor has forfeited its right to claim parking charges against the vehicle’s hirer.

    12. There is also legal precedent regarding unloading and loading in Jopson vs Homeguard (case number B9GF0A9E). Judge Harris stated in this case that loading and unloading is not parking. The Claimant’s PCN stated that the Defendant was “parked in an area for longer than the maximum time.” However this legal precedent states that loading is not parking and therefore invalidates the PCN. This case has to date not been overturned and is therefore persuasive on the lower courts.

    Paragraphs 13-end as per newbies template.


    I've got a bit of time (I think - 6th March?) before the deadline to submit this so any thoughts/tweaks would be appreciated.

  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,085
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    Lought_TA said:
    I've got a bit of time (I think - 6th March?) before the deadline...
    You are right with your Defence filing deadline but there might be something useful here...

    With a Claim Issue Date of 1st February, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 6th March 2023 to file your Defence.

    That's over three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence and it is good to see that you are not leaving it to the last minute.
    To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.
    Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

    Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.
  • Le_Kirk
    Le_Kirk Posts: 21,936
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    Still reads more like a witness statement and you have at least one "I" in there; defences are written in the third person. Keep it short and punchy and save the narrative for the WS.
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