Property disregards on universal credit

[Deleted User]

hi guys im looking for a bit of advice

about 9 years ago i bought a flat with my ex girlfriend, we broke up not long after.

i wanted to rent first but she insisted we bought a flat, she payed the deposit but needed my name for the mortgage, after we broke up i payed a couple of mortage payments but stated i wasnt continuing to pay for a property i wasnt living in, she took over payments but i continued to get contacted by bank/council etc over various stuff, the break up wasnt a good one and it was in our both interests to not have to keep contact.

She came over with a lawyer drafted document stating i wasnt finacially liable for anything to do with the flat and i wasnt to get any profit etc, she needed this in order to rent it out without my permission. after the document i havnt had any contact regarding the flat, ive always been confident that her family wouldnt let her get into any financial trouble with it and apart from a couple of payments i havnt invested any money into it, and ive been super confident that she wouldnt want me to benefit financially from it in any way.

I kept a eye over the joint bank account the flat was associated with until it was moved from that account (into an account i couldnt access i assume)

After this i simply put it to the back of my mind

fast forward 9 years and my current wife suffers from huntingtons disease, over the last 6 months ive quit my job to be her carer this has meant ive had to apply for universal credit, although a joint application it was mostly about her, she qualifys for the lcwra, we get housing and i get the carers element, i never disclosed the flat as i dont see it as property that i own, i wont gain anything from it i dont benefit in anyway.

but over the last few weeks ive been second guessing myself, im pretty confident that in any instance it would be disreagrded if i declared it but i would imagine it would mean getting my ex involved in any investigation and the potential fallout if my universal credit was stopped would be disastrous

in my head im not looking to scam the system, my ex would walk over hot coals before she ever let me make anything from the flat plus i have documentation stating i have no financial interest in it, i havnt paid a single penny towards it

im thinking the worst in not declaring is that if they somehow find out about all this i just present all the evidence and explain my stance and deal with the ex there and then, as she would need to provide the bulk of the evidence

ive only just managed to get my head above water recently with dealing with my wifes illness and the financial implications to it all just dont want to have it all crashing down on me just now

calcotti

If you own a share in a property that you do not live in then the value of your share is capital and if worth more than £16,000 you are not entitled to Universal Credit. In order to get the property disregarded you would need to demonstrate that the property has no value or that you are in the process of selling it.

Rubyroobs

There is a question on the Uc application asking if you own other property that you don't live in I think? What did you answer to that?

[Deleted User]

i answered no because if you were to ask my ex i dont own any part of that property

she is adamant that she has sorted this situation to a point were she can let out and pay off the mortgage safe in the knowledge i dont gain anything from it, she has also changed the mortgage (i just checked this) if i was part owner she would need my permission to both let and change terms.

im guessing its cheaper to continue this way than pay solicitor fees, in her view im sort of a guarantor, im not fussed because she makes payments and id rather avoid solicitor fees 

me and my ex are both under the assumption that i have no capital in that property, and even if i did its well under the 16k 

its came up before regarding my input and was told i dont own any part of that property, this is the assumption ive been using for the last 8 years

she would walk through fire to prove it, if im proven to still have capital then im due 50% of any sale and 50% of the total rent she has received for the last 8 years

NedS

superbal7 said:

i answered no because if you were to ask my ex i dont own any part of that property

It's not really relevant what your ex thinks. If you show on the land registry as a (part) owner of the property, that will eventually flag up and UC will launch a fraud investigation.

If you are still on the deeds of ownership, you should declare the property now together with evidence of the agreements you have with your ex, and a decision maker will decide whether the property can be disregarded or not.

maisie_cat

There is a difference between legal ownership and beneficial ownership so if there is legal paperwork demonstrating that you are not a beneficial owner just a legal owner you might be alright.

[Deleted User]

it is relevant what my ex thinks? 

if she believes that she has full ownership and i dont have any capital interest in the property and the UC believes i do then i would need her to testify to that?

im assuming the system is set like this so people cant buy a property, let it out, then claim universal credit whilst building savings in an undeclared property 

i dont benefit in anyway from this property, theres legal documentation stating that, and theres evidence from the last 8 years that i havnt taken out or put into it, it seems pointless claiming to own it then to take steps to prove i dont

i dont mind it flagging up in future, theres more than enough evidence to prove i have no capital in it and its well under the limit, surely it can only be classed as fraud if i benefit from it?

it would be a very short investigation, i really dont want to have to contact my ex in any situation, i think i would rather keep with the story that i believed i had signed any financial benefit away and if they launch an investigation its on her to prove otherwise

calcotti

As you appear completely convinced of the correctness of your position I’m not sure why you asked the question in the first place.

[Deleted User]

been thinking that myself

marcia_

  If you can benefit from it if its sold is what matters, not just if you benefit now. 

 If it appears you've deliberately withheld the information they can see it as fraud 

tomtom256

Under benefit legislation it's quite straightforward, from a legal view point you own half of the property, regardless of what your ex believes to be true. The next question is what is your share worth. That answer is what matters.

The question is also straight forward on the application, do you have any capital, shares or own a property you do not live in. The answer would be yes.

If the DWP fraud requested not only the land registry deed but also the mortgage application, presumably they would both have your name on them, which would be all they need to prove you made a false statement in order to receive benefits you may not be entitled too.

I would declare the property and explain what you believe your position to be in respect of it's ownership and why it wasn't declared sooner. Better to get it out in the open, then to leave it until it catches up with you.