Speeding ticket from test drive

Jenni_D

Perhaps I could have phrased it better.

We both quoted the OP ... and both statements could be conflicting. So it really needs the OP to clarify ... and that was the intent of my previous post that you took issue with, because the OP is disputing the timings of the dealer. (Per the post I quoted)

k3lvc

TooManyPoints said:

...the police obviously think that the dealer's record is more reliable than your recollection, and that it might be sufficient to charge you with speeding.

They won't do that. The dealers can say who they lent the car to for a test drive but they cannot say he was the driver at the time of the alleged offence because (presumably) they were not present. 

Based on the information from the OP I'm not sure we yet know whether they were alone or accompanied ? And additionally whether there was a tracker on the car (my last 2 unaccompanied test drives I've been joined by a 'live' portable tracker on the passenger seat) 

TooManyPoints

Based on the information from the OP I'm not sure we yet know whether they were alone or accompanied ?

No we don't know any of that. But even if we did, it is unlikely that the police will bother to find out themselves. The OP has a duty to provide the information I have outlined. If the police don't believe him they will almost certainly let a court decide the issue. The OP's best bet would be to contact the dealer to see on what basis they named him as the driver and to ask to see the documentation or whatever else was used himself. But he'll need to get a shift on.

born_again

TooManyPoints said:

...the police obviously think that the dealer's record is more reliable than your recollection, and that it might be sufficient to charge you with speeding.

They won't do that. The dealers can say who they lent the car to for a test drive but they cannot say he was the driver at the time of the alleged offence because (presumably) they were not present. If the police were going to go down that road they would have done so by now. If they took that to court and presented that as their only evidence (for speeding) I would not be at all surprised if the court found there was no case to answer, meaning the OP would not have to present a defence. They need a signed s172 response from the driver accepting they were driving at the material time and if they don't get that their only option is to lay a charge under s172.

As I said yesterday, this really is quite straightforward. The OP either sucks up a speeding charge and accepts (most probably) a course or he defends the s172 charge if it is laid. If he decides to do that he will see the evidence the police intend to rely on to convict him and he can consider whether a court is more likely to accept the dealer's evidence that he was driving or his own, rather sketchy, account. To find him not guilty the court would have to agree that he had given all the information that it was within his power to give that would lead to the identification of the driver. They would have to weigh that against the evidence provided by the dealer. 

If they have a timed log, then they can. I would guess they could also back this up with CCTV of car leaving & arriving. In effect their evidence is stronger than someone simply saying it was not me, with nothing to back it up.

OP has not mentioned what happened to car after they dropped it off. 

jimjames

facade said:

Take this to pepipoo.

The possibilities seem to me-

2) The number plate has been cloned.  Possible. Rather an unfortunate co-incidence if it has, and usually they don't clone an in-trade vehicle as it might get stopped.

Thinking about this there is also another possibility albeit remote that the number plate is not the same one on both ends of the car. My FiL bought a car many years ago and only after 12 months realised the front and rear plates were different, 1 digit out. Whoever fitted them at dealership had mixed plates for 2 cars. An unlikely scenario in this case but possible compared to some of the other options.

DB1904

user1977 said:

And no doubt there is convincing evidence available that the speed camera's clock is properly calibrated, which I would expect would outweigh whatever scribbles are in the dealership's notes and the OP's even hazier recollection of timing.

Or as the post below yours states, maybe it's an hour out.

Some of the Station alcohol analysis machines were an hour out for half the year running only on GMT.

sevenhills

k3lvc said:

Based on the information from the OP I'm not sure we yet know whether they were alone or accompanied ? And additionally whether there was a tracker on the car (my last 2 unaccompanied test drives I've been joined by a 'live' portable tracker on the passenger seat) 

The OP seems to be slow and vague at giving information, seems to me he is trying to get out of accepting this fine.

MarkPstranger

Thanks again to all. I was unaccompanied on the drive.
My recollection was of returning 10 mins before the end of the dealership return and their evidence, which has me returning less than 1 min after the offence is based on a 30 mins fixed time.

I will take the points given to take legal advice. Thank you again.

Manxman_in_exile

Before taking legal advice you really should post on pepipoo which you've already been advised on here several times to do.  But if you do decide to post there I'd advise you to give a more complete account of the circumstances of this case from the outset than you may have done here.  Don't register with a hotmail address.

FightBack Forums -> Speeding and other Criminal Offences (pepipoo.com)

They give sound advice and it won't cost you anything.  If you go to a solicitor it will cost you and you'll have no guarantee of getting off the charge.  And if your solicitor "optimistically" advises you to plead not guilty but you still get convicted in court, it will be very expensive for you.

k3lvc

MarkPstranger said:

Thanks again to all. I was unaccompanied on the drive.
My recollection was of returning 10 mins before the end of the dealership return and their evidence, which has me returning less than 1 min after the offence is based on a 30 mins fixed time.

I will take the points given to take legal advice. Thank you again.

And how far away from the dealership did the offence take place ?