Speeding ticket from test drive

Manxman_in_exile

MarkPstranger said:

... I initially disputed that it was me saying that I felt I had returned the car by the time of the offence.
The dealership, via the police, sent the form I signed to do the test drive showing me as the driver. I dispute the timings and the “end time” is apparently generically 30 mins from the start...

MarkPstranger said:

... The reason I don’t believe it was me is that the offence took place 30 mins after I started the test drive according to the dealership documents and it shows me returning the vehicle at exactly the time of the offence. However I am categorically sure that the end of my route was nowhere near the camera location.

I’ve sent the forms to say I wasn’t driving now twice to the police but they twice came back to me saying that the dealership asserts I am driving.

What sort of "dealership" is this?

The problem you have is that if they are anything like a competent authorised dealership then they will almost certainly have a comprehensive and contemporaneous log of where there their test cars are at any one time and who is driving them.  This is just a prudent thing for a dealership to do for a whole load of reasons, including matters like insurance and speeding allegations.

Compared to your " I felt I had returned the car by the time of the offence" and " I don't believe it was me" the police obviously think that the dealer's record is more reliable than your recollection, and that it might be sufficient to charge you with speeding.

If you haven't already done so, I'd have thought the obvious thing for you to do is to ask the dealership exactly what their test drive log shows for you testing that car and what times they have given the police.  I see no harm in also asking them when the car was out immediately before and after your test drive.

There are also the possibilities suggested by others of a number mis-read or some time problem with the camera.

Two other posters have already advised you to go to Pepipoo, and that's a good idea.  (Don't attempt to register with a Hotmail address).

FightBack Forums -> Speeding and other Criminal Offences (pepipoo.com)

If you don't act fairly promptly you might end up with a s172 charge as well...

MarkPstranger

Thanks again for all the comments. To answer one point, I don't see that I was the driver at the time of the offence, the problem really is in the evidence. In my mind the evidence supports that I was not the driver but this is the part which seems challenging due to the fixed 30 mins end time on the dealership paperwork.

I'll take legal advice on this - thank you all again.

Benny2020

Speed cameras are not perfect.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews/16454384/couple-number-plate-stitches-camera-mishap/

Car_54

Benny2020 said:

Speed cameras are not perfect.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews/16454384/couple-number-plate-stitches-camera-mishap/

Very amusing, but that wasn't a speed camera.

Jenni_D

MarkPstranger said:

Thanks again for all the comments. To answer one point, I don't see that I was the driver at the time of the offence, the problem really is in the evidence. In my mind the evidence supports that I was not the driver but this is the part which seems challenging due to the fixed 30 mins end time on the dealership paperwork.

I'll take legal advice on this - thank you all again.

To clarify (as I think this is the crux of the matter, and a few people may have misinterpreted what you've said) ... the dealer have stated you had the vehicle from (e.g.) 3pm to 3.30pm, but your recollection is that you returned the vehicle to the dealer before 3.30pm? i.e. you did not have the vehicle at the stated time of the offence. Thus you're alleging sloppy record keeping by the dealer, and it was the person who tested the vehicle after you that was more likely the driver at the time.

Is this correct?

Ath_Wat

No, he is not disputing the times the dealership say he had the car; and these times span the time of the offence, he is saying that when the offence occurred he had completed his test drive and was sitting in the car near the dealership playing with the stereo.

He in fact appears to be relying on the dealership's times as he has not put forward any independent record he has of them; he is going just on the idea that the offence was too close to the end of his drive to have been him.

MarkPstranger said:

I am 100% certain I was not even in sight of the camera at the end of the drive and recall exactly where I was as it was pulled over, near the dealership, checking out the in-car entertainment system.

He hasn't said whether he was accompanied in the car either.

Jenni_D

MarkPstranger said:

Hello, I have been sent a ticket following a test drive from a dealership.
I initially disputed that it was me saying that I felt I had returned the car by the time of the offence.
The dealership, via the police, sent the form I signed to do the test drive showing me as the driver. I dispute the timings and the “end time” is apparently generically 30 mins from the start.
The police are saying I likely need to go to court over this which I will do but really don’t want to. Anyone with experience on this that can help please?

So you're saying that the OP is being inconsistent and changing the story?

Let's see what the OP clarifies. (And hopefully they'll also clarify re. solo or accompanied test drive).

Car_54

AIUI the allegation is 37 mph in a 30 limit. 
That would normally mean a speed awareness course, or a £100 fixed penalty.
Going to court and losing (which seems likely) will cost the OP about £1,000, or much more if he employs a lawyer. Unless he's already on nine points, it doesn't seem worth the gamble.

TooManyPoints

...the police obviously think that the dealer's record is more reliable than your recollection, and that it might be sufficient to charge you with speeding.

They won't do that. The dealers can say who they lent the car to for a test drive but they cannot say he was the driver at the time of the alleged offence because (presumably) they were not present. If the police were going to go down that road they would have done so by now. If they took that to court and presented that as their only evidence (for speeding) I would not be at all surprised if the court found there was no case to answer, meaning the OP would not have to present a defence. They need a signed s172 response from the driver accepting they were driving at the material time and if they don't get that their only option is to lay a charge under s172.

As I said yesterday, this really is quite straightforward. The OP either sucks up a speeding charge and accepts (most probably) a course or he defends the s172 charge if it is laid. If he decides to do that he will see the evidence the police intend to rely on to convict him and he can consider whether a court is more likely to accept the dealer's evidence that he was driving or his own, rather sketchy, account. To find him not guilty the court would have to agree that he had given all the information that it was within his power to give that would lead to the identification of the driver. They would have to weigh that against the evidence provided by the dealer. 

Ath_Wat

Jenni_D said:

MarkPstranger said:

Hello, I have been sent a ticket following a test drive from a dealership.
I initially disputed that it was me saying that I felt I had returned the car by the time of the offence.
The dealership, via the police, sent the form I signed to do the test drive showing me as the driver. I dispute the timings and the “end time” is apparently generically 30 mins from the start.
The police are saying I likely need to go to court over this which I will do but really don’t want to. Anyone with experience on this that can help please?

So you're saying that the OP is being inconsistent and changing the story?

Let's see what the OP clarifies. (And hopefully they'll also clarify re. solo or accompanied test drive).

No, you are saying that.  I directly quoted his words and didn't say anything of the sort.  Stop this passive aggressive nonsense, please.