Speeding ticket from test drive

MarkPstranger

I also do not think I was speeding at all - I’ve never had a ticket and am careful with limits, esp 30 limits which this was and they say it was 37mph

Aretnap

jimjames said:

MarkPstranger said:

Hello, I have been sent a ticket following a test drive from a dealership.
I initially disputed that it was me saying that I felt I had returned the car by the time of the offence.

"Felt" you had returned the car by the alleged time isn't a very strong defence I'd suggest. Do you have anything stronger? Route you took wasn't where the camera was located?

It is not, strictly speaking, for the OP to provide a defence at all. If the S172 recipient denies being the driver at the time of the offence, the onus is on the prosecution to prove that he was indeed driving. If it went to court the prosecution would have to present their evidence that it was the OP driving (presumably the dealership's response, backed up by a log book divided into suspiciously precise 30 minute slots). Only in that evidence by itself is enough for the magistrates to be sure that it was the OP driving would he have to offer any form of defence.

If the OP is determined to avoid court then I'm not sure that he has a way of doing that, short of realising that it probably was him driving after all and accepting the fixed penalty or speed awareness course (if that's even an option at this stage). However if it did go to court, if. what he's said is the whole story he should have at least a reasonable chance of acquittal.

The calculation might change of course if the prosecution could also point to a photograph clearly showing a driver with a strong resemblance to the OP... 

TooManyPoints

You need to make your mind up here. Either you are going to swallow it and (if the offence was not more than four months ago) you will be offered a either a course (if you are eligible) or a fixed penalty (£100 and 3 points). Or you will have to defend the inevitable prosecution under s172 that will follow. The outcome very much depends on what evidence the court accepts to show that you were driving. If the dealer has records which are adequate enough to show that you were, it will very likely go against you. 

I also do not think I was speeding at all...

One other alternative is to accept that you were driving but then contest the speeding charge itself. The police will produce evidence to show that your speed was recorded by an approved device operated in the correct manner. You will have show that the device cannot be relied upon to show you were exceeding the speed limit. Do you have anything other than "I also do not think I was speeding at all..." to show that? If not, beware. The cost of failure is high. You will face a fine of half a week's net income, a "Victim Surcharge" of 10% of the fine (minimum £34) and prosecution costs which will begin at £620 (so not much change out of £1k for most people). The upside of this, however, is that, if convicted, you would only get three points and a much less damaging endorsement for speeding (SP30). 

jimjames

MarkPstranger said:

Thanks for all the answers here. I don’t know if I went precisely past the camera at the start of my test drive as the picture sent by the police shows somewhere near the route so that’s possible. 

The photographic evidence form the police is the back of the car and that’s not clear where it is and there’s no picture of the driver.

The reason I don’t believe it was me is that the offence took place 30 mins after I started the test drive according to the dealership documents and it shows me returning the vehicle at exactly the time of the offence. However I am categorically sure that the end of my route was nowhere near the camera location.
I’ve sent the forms to say I wasn’t driving now twice to the police but they twice came back to me saying that the dealership asserts I am driving.

If the picture shows the vehicle at the start of the test drive could it also be the same location at the end of the test drive? Was anyone else booked for a test drive directly after you? If there wasn't anyone else for an hour or so afterwards and car was shown to be sat in car park then it wouldn't really help your case.

If you have an Android phone (possibly iPhone too) then Google maps can show your timeline. When I checked mine for yesterday it accurately shows the time I left the house to go to DIY shop, when I got back and when I went out again. Worth looking to see what data is shown for the day of the test drive.

Benny2020

Thats a good point about google maps and the timeline feature.

diystarter7

MarkPstranger said:

I also do not think I was speeding at all - I’ve never had a ticket and am careful with limits, esp 30 limits which this was and they say it was 37mph

Just like to add and I hope this helps.
I test drove a very nice auto car that was almost brand new and bigger
and more expensive and more modern car than I've got. Before I noted it I was doing about 36/37 in a 30 zone.
I've never been fined etc but just saying driving a new car, a better one that one has can catch some people out.

sevenhills

jimjames said

"Felt" you had returned the car by the alleged time isn't a very strong defence I'd suggest. Do you have anything stronger? Route you took wasn't where the camera was located?

The OP maybe unsure if it was him that was driving, but the dealership should know.
I have never been on a test drive, I am assuming it was a solo drive?
If there is a speed camera close to the dealership, then they will keep good records, as this may have happened before.

[Deleted User]

Look for some evidence that you were not driving. Your phone might be keeping records of your movement, if it's Android check your Google location history on their website.

Other things like receipts with the time on them, anything that can show you were not driving.

Ath_Wat

If you returned the car at precisely the time of the offence and that was nowhere near the camera, how could anyone have been driving the car at the time of the offence near the camera?  You are not just saying you weren't there, you are saying the car wasn't.

MalMonroe

You said this -

"The reason I don’t believe it was me is that the offence took place 30 mins after I started the test drive according to the dealership documents and it shows me returning the vehicle at exactly the time of the offence. However I am categorically sure that the end of my route was nowhere near the camera location.

I’ve sent the forms to say I wasn’t driving now twice to the police but they twice came back to me saying that the dealership asserts I am driving."

And I find it very disconcerting indeed that the police appear to have taken the dealer's word as being the correct version of events. Why is that? 

You also say,  " . . . sent the form I signed to do the test drive showing me as the driver.  But that isn't conclusive proof. It's proof only that you took that car out between those times for a test drive, and signed a form. 

And then - "there’s no picture of the driver." 

So in theory anybody could have been driving the car - even someone from the dealership. Somebody has to prove something definitively here and if the police cannot prove conclusively that you were driving that car at that particular place at that particular time, then surely there cannot be a case to answer? 

Even if the dealership has CCTV and that car is seen leaving and entering at specific times, that doesn't prove that you were the person speeding. Unless they have footage of you actually speeding, everything else is just conjecture.

If I were you I'd definitely contact a solicitor, see if you can have one of those free first appointments that many of them offer and discuss this with them. I'd be prepared to go to court because the police 'evidence' appears to be very flimsy but a solicitor can advise you more.

If it does go to court, then the police will have to prove that you were the driver at the time of the alleged offence. But it seems to me from what you have said that there is no positive proof.