PIP appeal

poppy12345

Once you receive them (and there's no timescales how long it will take) you will need to find the error in law. You can't just appeal the decision because you think it's wrong.

Alice_Holt

poppy12345 said:

Once you receive them (and there's no timescales how long it will take) you will need to find the error in law. You can't just appeal the decision because you think it's wrong.

      And an error in law that resulted in an award not being allowed.

     So, if an appellant was given, say, 4 points for DL, an error in law on a 2 point descriptor would not change a decision that the criteria for an award had not been achieved. In those circumstances, it is (I think) unlikely that a UT judge would fully consider the request. 

  OP - What descriptors and points were you given ?    

tifo

poppy12345 said:

Once you receive them (and there's no timescales how long it will take) you will need to find the error in law. You can't just appeal the decision because you think it's wrong.

I know this by now 

tifo

Alice_Holt said:

  OP - What descriptors and points were you given ?    

2 points for needing help to manage therapy for 3.5 hours.

For the WCA (i've a separate thread) I got 6 points for mobility up to 200 though i think it should have been up to 50 metres. Then they awarded LCW on 'risk to self' as 6 points is not enough. This was based on the WCA and PIP report, but both generally said the same thing. Like I said, the WCA tribunal were quoting from both medical reports equally.

So going by the same reports 2 tribunals made different decisions. The PIP tribunal knew i'd got 6 points for mobility in the WCA appeal, they said so.

tifo

tifo said:

I can think of a few reasons, one being that they didn't assess for 3 months and 9 months for my variable and fluctuating conditions. The judge told me "we don't calculate it that way" when she concentrated on my good days (a week or so) and I said they need to look at the bad days and over a 12 month period. The same when I said it's been 10 months after the assessment and my conditions affected me over this period so meet the 9 months criteria. And because I've had them for more than 3 years to date the 3 months condition is also met.

This will be 1 reason for an upper tribunal review. I think.

It depends if the 3 months and 9 months is a strict required period and how it's meant to be calculated. Let's say my assessment was on 1 September 2021, 3 months before would be from 1 June 2021 and 9 months later until 30 May 2022. The prescribed date could be the assessment date ("if C had been assessed").

"if C had been assessed at every time in the period of 3 months ending with the prescribed date" and "if C were to be assessed at every time in the period of 9 months beginning with the day after the prescribed date".

Does 'every time' mean every day? Because i'd need to meet "where one descriptor is satisfied on over 50% of the days of the required period, that descriptor" over the 12 month period. They took 1 week in a better week and somehow calculated that for the 9 month period, I even said you're looking at the good days there and over the 9 months after the prescribed date i've already met the criteria as my conditions affected me more than 50% of the time. I don't know what they looked at for the 3 months.

I could not carry out activities safely, reliably, repeatedly for more than 50% of the 12 months.

poppy12345

tifo said:

Alice_Holt said:

  OP - What descriptors and points were you given ?    

2 points for needing help to manage therapy for 3.5 hours.

For the WCA (i've a separate thread) I got 6 points for mobility up to 200 though i think it should have been up to 50 metres. Then they awarded LCW on 'risk to self' as 6 points is not enough. This was based on the WCA and PIP report, but both generally said the same thing. Like I said, the WCA tribunal were quoting from both medical reports equally.

So going by the same reports 2 tribunals made different decisions. The PIP tribunal knew i'd got 6 points for mobility in the WCA appeal, they said so.

Why are you still comparing both PIP and LCW? They are 2 completely different benefits. I think this is part of your problem had you concentrated on each individual appeal then the outcome may have been different.

Spoonie_Turtle

Moving up to 200m still wouldn't have got you a PIP award as that's only 4 points for mobility.  You'd have needed either 8 points for 20-50m, or an extra 4 or more points from planning and following journeys.

However the WCA is assessed differently and may have decided you could self-propel up to 200m if you couldn't walk all of it, which is not what PIP looks at.  PIP looks at standing and moving (walking).  I do understand why you feel the PIP tribunal ought to have taken it into consideration, but AFAIK it's not actually required of them to do so.

I know it's hard not to compare the two experiences especially as you had both tribunals so close to each other, but you need to have the different assessments and descriptors clear in your head.

Robbie64

poppy12345 said:

tifo said:

Alice_Holt said:

  OP - What descriptors and points were you given ?    

2 points for needing help to manage therapy for 3.5 hours.

For the WCA (i've a separate thread) I got 6 points for mobility up to 200 though i think it should have been up to 50 metres. Then they awarded LCW on 'risk to self' as 6 points is not enough. This was based on the WCA and PIP report, but both generally said the same thing. Like I said, the WCA tribunal were quoting from both medical reports equally.

So going by the same reports 2 tribunals made different decisions. The PIP tribunal knew i'd got 6 points for mobility in the WCA appeal, they said so.

Why are you still comparing both PIP and LCW? They are 2 completely different benefits. I think this is part of your problem had you concentrated on each individual appeal then the outcome may have been different.

There is a descriptor in the WCA that covers mobilising which can score 6 points

1. Mobilising unaided by another person with or without a walking stick, manual wheelchair or other aid if such aid is normally, or could reasonably be, worn or used.

(d) Cannot either
(i) mobilise more than 200 metres on level ground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion
or
(ii) repeatedly mobilise 200 metres within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort or exhaustion. 6 points

Maybe this is what tifo means?

Spoonie_Turtle

Robbie64 said:

poppy12345 said:

tifo said:

Alice_Holt said:

  OP - What descriptors and points were you given ?    

2 points for needing help to manage therapy for 3.5 hours.

For the WCA (i've a separate thread) I got 6 points for mobility up to 200 though i think it should have been up to 50 metres. Then they awarded LCW on 'risk to self' as 6 points is not enough. This was based on the WCA and PIP report, but both generally said the same thing. Like I said, the WCA tribunal were quoting from both medical reports equally.

So going by the same reports 2 tribunals made different decisions. The PIP tribunal knew i'd got 6 points for mobility in the WCA appeal, they said so.

Why are you still comparing both PIP and LCW? They are 2 completely different benefits. I think this is part of your problem had you concentrated on each individual appeal then the outcome may have been different.

There is a descriptor in the WCA that covers mobilising which can score 6 points

1. Mobilising unaided by another person with or without a walking stick, manual wheelchair or other aid if such aid is normally, or could reasonably be, worn or used.

(d) Cannot either
(i) mobilise more than 200 metres on level ground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion
or
(ii) repeatedly mobilise 200 metres within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort or exhaustion. 6 points

Maybe this is what tifo means?

It no doubt is what they mean, but it's completely irrelevant to PIP.

poppy12345

Robbie64 said:

poppy12345 said:

tifo said:

Alice_Holt said:

  OP - What descriptors and points were you given ?    

2 points for needing help to manage therapy for 3.5 hours.

For the WCA (i've a separate thread) I got 6 points for mobility up to 200 though i think it should have been up to 50 metres. Then they awarded LCW on 'risk to self' as 6 points is not enough. This was based on the WCA and PIP report, but both generally said the same thing. Like I said, the WCA tribunal were quoting from both medical reports equally.

So going by the same reports 2 tribunals made different decisions. The PIP tribunal knew i'd got 6 points for mobility in the WCA appeal, they said so.

Why are you still comparing both PIP and LCW? They are 2 completely different benefits. I think this is part of your problem had you concentrated on each individual appeal then the outcome may have been different.

There is a descriptor in the WCA that covers mobilising which can score 6 points

1. Mobilising unaided by another person with or without a walking stick, manual wheelchair or other aid if such aid is normally, or could reasonably be, worn or used.

(d) Cannot either
(i) mobilise more than 200 metres on level ground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion
or
(ii) repeatedly mobilise 200 metres within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort or exhaustion. 6 points

Maybe this is what tifo means?

Yes indeed there is but this also covers ability to use a manual wheelchair, PIP doesn't take that into consideration.