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Section 8 court hearing
3card
Posts: 437 Forumite
I am posting this because there is little first hand experience on here regarding actual court hearings for possession so im hoping it will help a few people
Today we have attended county court for a possession hearing regarding a tenant that's not paid (or attempted to pay) any rent since she paid a partial rent payment in December 2021.
The property is owned by my wife and i act as her agent so i have had all the dealing regarding this problem.
The tenant has been in the property since 30/10/2017 and apart from a few months she had been paying her rent on a regular basis but since her partial payment she's made excuses after excuses and we are now convinced she planned this so she can get a property from the local council
I sorted out all the paperwork from the initial S21, S8 and the court papers which was a learning curve as i have never had to do this before. Included in the bundles were copies of
1) The tenancy agreement
2) The court forms (N119 & N5)
3) All relevant information of the S8 including the Certificate of service (N215) including date stamped photos of my issuing the S8 through the letterbox of the property because she wouldn't talk to me or answer the door
4) Rent statement which included a copy of the statement as of the application to the courts for a date, an up to date to todays date (the court hearing date) and copies of the monthly rent statements i sent to the tenant
5) The prescribed information template for the deposit ( this was not required but i included it just in case the judge wanted to include this in his 'money order'
6) An agreement i put forward to the tenant in February to enable her to stay in the property by agreeing certain points (i.e. agree to pay the rent on time, starting in February which she had stated would happen!!
7) I also included screenshots of the texts we had exchanged since the debacle started in December
We actioned the S8 because it was quicker than the S21 (S8 gives the tenant an initial 2 weeks notice as opposed to the S21 giving 2 months) so just over 2 weeks from the notice i applied for a court hearing using the relevant forms available on line along with a rental statement.
When we got to the court we were handed another form to complete prior to the hearing asking for date tenancy commenced, how much as the monthly rent, whether housing benefit is paid and how much, total arrears and last payment received.
Whilst we were waiting to go in there was another couple we got chatting to and they were in a similar position to us but they hadn't received any rent since September 2021. They used a company to do all their paperwork which cost them approx. £500 for the court side of it and £140 for the issuing of their S8 & S21 and they applied 2 months before our application so i think we have saved 2 months doing it ourselves
When we eventually went into the hearing room we realised the tenant hadn't shown her face (I didn't expect her to turn up) and even though i wasn't the landlord and i had not done a witness statement I was allowed to sit in an even able to speak which i wasn't expecting)
I gave the judge his copy of the bundle and he just used it to check the date of the tenancy and arrears figure and then he just said 'possession issued, 14 days' asked me to confirm the court fees we had paid and he said 'that's it'
14 days from todays date will be issued and it will be posted out to the tenant by teh end of the week so by the time she gets it she might be down to 7 days. He told me i can notify the tenant now
I have to say that as a member of the NRLA I found their advice line very helpful during the process
Just need to see what happens in 2 weeks time but I'm expecting to action the bailiffs
Today we have attended county court for a possession hearing regarding a tenant that's not paid (or attempted to pay) any rent since she paid a partial rent payment in December 2021.
The property is owned by my wife and i act as her agent so i have had all the dealing regarding this problem.
The tenant has been in the property since 30/10/2017 and apart from a few months she had been paying her rent on a regular basis but since her partial payment she's made excuses after excuses and we are now convinced she planned this so she can get a property from the local council
I sorted out all the paperwork from the initial S21, S8 and the court papers which was a learning curve as i have never had to do this before. Included in the bundles were copies of
1) The tenancy agreement
2) The court forms (N119 & N5)
3) All relevant information of the S8 including the Certificate of service (N215) including date stamped photos of my issuing the S8 through the letterbox of the property because she wouldn't talk to me or answer the door
4) Rent statement which included a copy of the statement as of the application to the courts for a date, an up to date to todays date (the court hearing date) and copies of the monthly rent statements i sent to the tenant
5) The prescribed information template for the deposit ( this was not required but i included it just in case the judge wanted to include this in his 'money order'
6) An agreement i put forward to the tenant in February to enable her to stay in the property by agreeing certain points (i.e. agree to pay the rent on time, starting in February which she had stated would happen!!
7) I also included screenshots of the texts we had exchanged since the debacle started in December
We actioned the S8 because it was quicker than the S21 (S8 gives the tenant an initial 2 weeks notice as opposed to the S21 giving 2 months) so just over 2 weeks from the notice i applied for a court hearing using the relevant forms available on line along with a rental statement.
When we got to the court we were handed another form to complete prior to the hearing asking for date tenancy commenced, how much as the monthly rent, whether housing benefit is paid and how much, total arrears and last payment received.
Whilst we were waiting to go in there was another couple we got chatting to and they were in a similar position to us but they hadn't received any rent since September 2021. They used a company to do all their paperwork which cost them approx. £500 for the court side of it and £140 for the issuing of their S8 & S21 and they applied 2 months before our application so i think we have saved 2 months doing it ourselves
When we eventually went into the hearing room we realised the tenant hadn't shown her face (I didn't expect her to turn up) and even though i wasn't the landlord and i had not done a witness statement I was allowed to sit in an even able to speak which i wasn't expecting)
I gave the judge his copy of the bundle and he just used it to check the date of the tenancy and arrears figure and then he just said 'possession issued, 14 days' asked me to confirm the court fees we had paid and he said 'that's it'
14 days from todays date will be issued and it will be posted out to the tenant by teh end of the week so by the time she gets it she might be down to 7 days. He told me i can notify the tenant now
I have to say that as a member of the NRLA I found their advice line very helpful during the process
Just need to see what happens in 2 weeks time but I'm expecting to action the bailiffs
11
Comments
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Just to be 100% clear, your wife (the landlord) was there?I say that as a warning to others in a similar position. As an 'agent' you had no right to bring the action and no right to present the case (as you acknowledge). Only the landlord (or a legal representative) could do so.Or, of course, someone with Power of Attorney for the LL.2
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Are you registered as required with a letting agent redress scheme??3card said:....................
The property is owned by my wife and i act as her agent so i have had all the dealing regarding this problem.
......
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/letting_agent_redress_schemes
Did the tenant & court get an authority from the landlord (your wife) granting you the right to handle matters, please?
Which grounds please ? ( 8, 10m & 11??) .
Applied for HCEO please?
Going just for eviction or debt also?
Are there any disrepair matters that the tenant may raise? Even if you think them invalid? If so tenant may make representations to court to have "arrears" reduced by the value of the repairs, Thus matter chucked out. See
https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/housing_conditions/legal_remedies_for_disrepair/tenant_deducts_from_rent_or_offsets_rent_arrears_because_of_disrepair#title-1
Tenant has right to appeal to court up to time bailiffs are walking up front path.
Assuming you get a debt order please ensure debtor, tenant, gets a CCJ thus for any landlord with enough brain to run a credit check will see red flag. And any other credit application (loan, credit agreement, mobile 'phone contract) proves v expensive or impossible.
Best wishes to all1 -
councils do not usually help home you if you've made yourself intentionally homeless. And by not paying the rent your tenant has done just that!
3 -
theartfullodger said:
Are you registered as required with a letting agent redress scheme??3card said:....................
The property is owned by my wife and i act as her agent so i have had all the dealing regarding this problem.
......
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/letting_agent_redress_schemes(7)In this section, “lettings agency work” means things done by any person in the course of a business in response to instructions received from—
(a)a person seeking to find another person wishing to rent a dwelling-house in England under a domestic tenancy and, having found such a person, to grant such a tenancy (“a prospective landlord”);
(b)a person seeking to find a dwelling-house in England to rent under a domestic tenancy and, having found such a dwelling-house, to obtain such a tenancy of it (“a prospective tenant”).
2 -
Many apologies for the mix up. Yes my wife was there as the landlord/claimantcanaldumidi said:Just to be 100% clear, your wife (the landlord) was there?I say that as a warning to others in a similar position. As an 'agent' you had no right to bring the action and no right to present the case (as you acknowledge). Only the landlord (or a legal representative) could do so.Or, of course, someone with Power of Attorney for the LL.
Yes you are correct that as her agent i had no power to bring the action. I did complete all the various forms/paperwork and she was the one that signed all everything once she agreed with it0 -
Answers in bold above but thanks very much for taking the time to read my post and your questionstheartfullodger said:
Are you registered as required with a letting agent redress scheme??3card said:....................
The property is owned by my wife and i act as her agent so i have had all the dealing regarding this problem.
......
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/letting_agent_redress_schemes - Nope
Did the tenant & court get an authority from the landlord (your wife) granting you the right to handle matters, please? - Yes this was all covered and as i corrected myself my wife was in the 'claimants' chair in the court and signed all the paperwork and took the oath at the start of the hearing
Which grounds please ? ( 8, 10m & 11??) . - S8 Grounds 8, 10 & 11
Applied for HCEO please? - Im not interested in becoming a high court enforcement officer so why should i?
Going just for eviction or debt also? - Eviction and debt
Are there any disrepair matters that the tenant may raise? Even if you think them invalid? If so tenant may make representations to court to have "arrears" reduced by the value of the repairs, Thus matter chucked out. See
https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/housing_conditions/legal_remedies_for_disrepair/tenant_deducts_from_rent_or_offsets_rent_arrears_because_of_disrepair#title-1 - No repairs have been indicated or asked for and there is no improvement notice issued
Tenant has right to appeal to court up to time bailiffs are walking up front path. - Yes im aware of this but the reason for my post was to help give other landlords an idea of timescales and what actually happens because its not easy to actually find that info out
Assuming you get a debt order please ensure debtor, tenant, gets a CCJ thus for any landlord with enough brain to run a credit check will see red flag. And any other credit application (loan, credit agreement, mobile 'phone contract) proves v expensive or impossible - Dont worry there will be a CCJ at the end of this matter just for the reason you have mentioned. But as i said i am sure she has been planning this for her to get a council property for her and her children
Best wishes to all0 -
I so wish this were true but i doubt very much it is. I believe the reason for this is because if they leave before they are forced out by bailiffs then that is seen as making yourself homelessShelldean said:councils do not usually help home you if you've made yourself intentionally homeless. And by not paying the rent your tenant has done just that!
But i stand corrected0 -
This is the game the council make them pay. If shes a housing benefit recipient theres no financial game for them. And now she has a bad credit rating to contend with. Another example of demonising the poor. It’s despicable.2
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I’ve said on another thread that it’s outrageous that people can, or even think they can, jump the council waiting list by not paying rent.In principle the tenant has made herself intentionally homeless, and I don’t think that the council have an obligation to house her. However, the children are another matter.No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?2
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The tenant is getting housing benefit which she has not passed on for six months. So, yes, she’s made quite a big financial "game".SuseOrm said:This is the game the council make them pay. If shes a housing benefit recipient theres no financial game for them. And now she has a bad credit rating to contend with. Another example of demonising the poor. It’s despicable.No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?2
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