Section 8 court hearing

Ms_Chocaholic

Richiem1987 said:

As she has children, then they have to house the children, as its not their fault. The tenenant may well assume that just becuase she has children, they will have to house her as well, and that is not always the case. If the council finds she has intentionally made herself and therefore her children homeless, childrens services will apply for an emergency care holder for her children, until the mother can find suitable accomodation, which wont be easy with her history and a CCJ hanging over her head. CS will also give her the oppertunity for a family member to house the children if space is available. She will still be entitled to access to her children (unless there are other issues of course).

Children's Services won't automatically put the matter before the Court for an EPO  - they will see if someone in the parent's network can care for the children in the interim.

SuseOrm

Ms_Chocaholic said:

Richiem1987 said:

As she has children, then they have to house the children, as its not their fault. The tenenant may well assume that just becuase she has children, they will have to house her as well, and that is not always the case. If the council finds she has intentionally made herself and therefore her children homeless, childrens services will apply for an emergency care holder for her children, until the mother can find suitable accomodation, which wont be easy with her history and a CCJ hanging over her head. CS will also give her the oppertunity for a family member to house the children if space is available. She will still be entitled to access to her children (unless there are other issues of course).

Children's Services won't automatically put the matter before the Court for an EPO  - they will see if someone in the parent's network can care for the children in the interim.

No the council will house them … stop putting out nonsense, scaremongering,  some poor parents might be reading this and you’re absolutely terrifying them adding to the stress levels.  

It cost the council £28,000 per child per year (2013 figures) to put those that are in real danger into foster care there isn’t enough facilities for those children so the councils will move heaven and earth to avoid that situation,  that’s completely a side of the absolute trauma it causes for the kids involved. 

Go and watch Kathy come home and thank goodness we’ve moved a long way from those days it seems to me some of you are quite keen to go back to the work houses and women having the children removed from them because they can’t pay the rent we only actually have the OP‘s word that this person is in the situation on purpose.  Thousands will through no fault of their own without immediate intervention if the cost of living keeps rising.  

Being poor isnt a crime.   

GDB2222

SuseOrm said:

Ms_Chocaholic said:

Richiem1987 said:

As she has children, then they have to house the children, as its not their fault. The tenenant may well assume that just becuase she has children, they will have to house her as well, and that is not always the case. If the council finds she has intentionally made herself and therefore her children homeless, childrens services will apply for an emergency care holder for her children, until the mother can find suitable accomodation, which wont be easy with her history and a CCJ hanging over her head. CS will also give her the oppertunity for a family member to house the children if space is available. She will still be entitled to access to her children (unless there are other issues of course).

Children's Services won't automatically put the matter before the Court for an EPO  - they will see if someone in the parent's network can care for the children in the interim.

No the council will house them … stop putting out nonsense, scaremongering,  some poor parents might be reading this and you’re absolutely terrifying them adding to the stress levels.  

It cost the council £28,000 per child per year (2013 figures) to put those that are in real danger into foster care there isn’t enough facilities for those children so the councils will move heaven and earth to avoid that situation,  that’s completely a side of the absolute trauma it causes for the kids involved. 

Go and watch Kathy come home and thank goodness we’ve moved a long way from those days it seems to me some of you are quite keen to go back to the work houses and women having the children removed from them because they can’t pay the rent we only actually have the OP‘s word that this person is in the situation on purpose.  Thousands will through no fault of their own without immediate intervention if the cost of living keeps rising.  

Being poor isnt a crime.   

According to your version, the tenant has withheld the rent, but has then had that clawed back from her UC. So, she has had no financial benefit. She has been 'forced' to do this in order to jump the queue (and I accept it is an impossibly long queue) for social housing. 

Or, have I misunderstood something?

And, yes, I entirely agree that the most likely outcome is that the council will rehouse her and her children. 

SuseOrm

GDB2222 said:

SuseOrm said:

Ms_Chocaholic said:

Richiem1987 said:

As she has children, then they have to house the children, as its not their fault. The tenenant may well assume that just becuase she has children, they will have to house her as well, and that is not always the case. If the council finds she has intentionally made herself and therefore her children homeless, childrens services will apply for an emergency care holder for her children, until the mother can find suitable accomodation, which wont be easy with her history and a CCJ hanging over her head. CS will also give her the oppertunity for a family member to house the children if space is available. She will still be entitled to access to her children (unless there are other issues of course).

Children's Services won't automatically put the matter before the Court for an EPO  - they will see if someone in the parent's network can care for the children in the interim.

No the council will house them … stop putting out nonsense, scaremongering,  some poor parents might be reading this and you’re absolutely terrifying them adding to the stress levels.  

It cost the council £28,000 per child per year (2013 figures) to put those that are in real danger into foster care there isn’t enough facilities for those children so the councils will move heaven and earth to avoid that situation,  that’s completely a side of the absolute trauma it causes for the kids involved. 

Go and watch Kathy come home and thank goodness we’ve moved a long way from those days it seems to me some of you are quite keen to go back to the work houses and women having the children removed from them because they can’t pay the rent we only actually have the OP‘s word that this person is in the situation on purpose.  Thousands will through no fault of their own without immediate intervention if the cost of living keeps rising.  

Being poor isnt a crime.   

According to your version, the tenant has withheld the rent, but has then had that clawed back from her UC. So, she has had no financial benefit. She has been 'forced' to do this in order to jump the queue (and I accept it is an impossibly long queue) for social housing. 

Or, have I misunderstood something?

And, yes, I entirely agree that the most likely outcome is that the council will rehouse her and her children. 

I know nothing of the situation,  neither does the landlord ( or her husband should we say).  But frothing at the mouth at the prospect of a family being traumatised is deeply distasteful.  

GDB2222

SuseOrm said:

GDB2222 said:

SuseOrm said:

Ms_Chocaholic said:

Richiem1987 said:

As she has children, then they have to house the children, as its not their fault. The tenenant may well assume that just becuase she has children, they will have to house her as well, and that is not always the case. If the council finds she has intentionally made herself and therefore her children homeless, childrens services will apply for an emergency care holder for her children, until the mother can find suitable accomodation, which wont be easy with her history and a CCJ hanging over her head. CS will also give her the oppertunity for a family member to house the children if space is available. She will still be entitled to access to her children (unless there are other issues of course).

Children's Services won't automatically put the matter before the Court for an EPO  - they will see if someone in the parent's network can care for the children in the interim.

No the council will house them … stop putting out nonsense, scaremongering,  some poor parents might be reading this and you’re absolutely terrifying them adding to the stress levels.  

It cost the council £28,000 per child per year (2013 figures) to put those that are in real danger into foster care there isn’t enough facilities for those children so the councils will move heaven and earth to avoid that situation,  that’s completely a side of the absolute trauma it causes for the kids involved. 

Go and watch Kathy come home and thank goodness we’ve moved a long way from those days it seems to me some of you are quite keen to go back to the work houses and women having the children removed from them because they can’t pay the rent we only actually have the OP‘s word that this person is in the situation on purpose.  Thousands will through no fault of their own without immediate intervention if the cost of living keeps rising.  

Being poor isnt a crime.   

According to your version, the tenant has withheld the rent, but has then had that clawed back from her UC. So, she has had no financial benefit. She has been 'forced' to do this in order to jump the queue (and I accept it is an impossibly long queue) for social housing. 

Or, have I misunderstood something?

And, yes, I entirely agree that the most likely outcome is that the council will rehouse her and her children. 

I know nothing of the situation,  neither does the landlord ( or her husband should we say).  But frothing at the mouth at the prospect of a family being traumatised is deeply distasteful.  

But, the family is being "traumatised" because the mother has chosen not to pay her landlord rent. It’s hard to feel sorry for her, and no doubt she will comfort the children by telling them about the Shangri La of wonderful council housing that awaits them. 

Robbo66

3card said:

theartfullodger said:

3card said:

....................
The property is owned by my wife and i act as her agent so i have had all the dealing regarding this problem. 

......

Are you registered as required with a letting agent redress scheme??
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/letting_agent_redress_schemes - Nope

Did the tenant & court get an authority from the landlord (your wife) granting you the right to handle matters, please? - Yes this was all covered and as i corrected myself my wife was in the 'claimants' chair in the court and signed all the paperwork and took the oath at the start of the hearing

Which grounds please ? ( 8, 10m & 11??) .  - S8 Grounds 8, 10 & 11

Applied for HCEO please? - Im not interested in becoming a high court enforcement officer so why should i?

Going just for eviction or debt also?  - Eviction and debt

Are there any disrepair matters that the tenant may raise? Even if you think them invalid? If so tenant may make representations to court to have "arrears" reduced by the value of the repairs,  Thus matter chucked out. See
https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/housing_conditions/legal_remedies_for_disrepair/tenant_deducts_from_rent_or_offsets_rent_arrears_because_of_disrepair#title-1 - No repairs have been indicated or asked for and there is no improvement notice issued 

Tenant has right to appeal to court up to time bailiffs are walking up front path. - Yes im aware of this but the reason for my post was to help give other landlords an idea of timescales and what actually happens because its not easy to actually find that info out

Assuming you get a debt order please ensure debtor, tenant, gets a CCJ thus for any landlord with enough brain to run a credit check will see red flag.  And any other credit application (loan, credit agreement, mobile 'phone contract) proves v expensive or impossible - Dont worry there will be a CCJ at the end of this matter just for the reason you have mentioned. But as i said i am sure she has been planning this for her to get a council property for her and her children

Best wishes to all

Answers in bold above but thanks very much for taking the time to read my post and your questions

Don't think Artful was asking if you applied to be an enforcement officer but did you escalate the case to the high court following possession. Just because you got a 14 day notice doesn't mean the tenant will move out, if she doesn't you will have to make an application to the bailiffs and depending on how busy they are could mean another 3 months wait.

Escalating to the high court means there is the potential for her to be evicted with in a week - 10 days

3card

SuseOrm said:

Richiem1987 said:

SuseOrm said:

Richiem1987 said:

3card said:

Richiem1987 said:

As she has children, then they have to house the children, as its not their fault. The tenenant may well assume that just becuase she has children, they will have to house her as well, and that is not always the case. If the council finds she has intentionally made herself and therefore her children homeless, childrens services will apply for an emergency care holder for her children, until the mother can find suitable accomodation, which wont be easy with her history and a CCJ hanging over her head. CS will also give her the oppertunity for a family member to house the children if space is available. She will still be entitled to access to her children (unless there are other issues of course).

I have no reason to think she is anything other than a  good mother and her kids look very happy and i would be unhappy if they were split up as a family

Saying this she has no interest in any effects her actions have taken on our household. We purchased this property in preparation for my retirement but i was made redundant in 2020 and even looking at part time employment hasnt worked out for me so the revenue from this property was a decent chunk of our income

Sadly when some tenants see landlords are helpful they see it as a sign of weakness and think they can get away with anything 

If she made contribrutions towards the rent every month but continuously fell into arrears and then got evicted, then the LA and CS would see it a different way and provide housing, but only after looking at her finances. CS will check everything, from having cupboards and fridge/freezer full of food to the parent(s) actually providing a safe home. As she has made no effort at all, then the LA and CS will see it as intentionally making her children homeless and place them into care. If the council housed every parent who witheld their rent to a private landlord, just to get themselves and their kids into social housing without having them placed into care, then they'd all be at it and would be plastered all over the Sun and the Daily Mail. 

She is going to have to suffer the concequences. If she wants her kids in her care, she will have to find herself suitable accomodation for them and pay her rent. She maybe a good mother, but CS will not see it that way. 

What absolute nonsense. 

Children are not put into care because parents loose their accomodation.  This isnt the 18th century with the poor houses … yet 🙄

If you are right, becuase she has children, she will get accomodation off the local authority, despite witholding rent. If that is the case, then it is really unfair on private LLs and those already on the HA waiting lists. 

Perhaps if it wasn’t such a bleeding pantomime people wouldn’t need to goes to such efforts to secure secure affordable accomodation and wouldn’t harm the private landlord in the process playing the game.  

If a landlord hasnt put a rent increase since the start of the tenancy almost 5 years ago, any repairs carried out in a very timely manner and previously helped the tenant out with missed or short rent payments isnt 'playing the game' then i dont know what is.

In instances like this where the law is heavily in the tenants favour its usually the landlords that have to play this 'bleeding pantomime' as you call it

3card

Robbo66 said:

3card said:

theartfullodger said:

3card said:

....................
The property is owned by my wife and i act as her agent so i have had all the dealing regarding this problem. 

......

Are you registered as required with a letting agent redress scheme??
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/letting_agent_redress_schemes - Nope

Did the tenant & court get an authority from the landlord (your wife) granting you the right to handle matters, please? - Yes this was all covered and as i corrected myself my wife was in the 'claimants' chair in the court and signed all the paperwork and took the oath at the start of the hearing

Which grounds please ? ( 8, 10m & 11??) .  - S8 Grounds 8, 10 & 11

Applied for HCEO please? - Im not interested in becoming a high court enforcement officer so why should i?

Going just for eviction or debt also?  - Eviction and debt

Are there any disrepair matters that the tenant may raise? Even if you think them invalid? If so tenant may make representations to court to have "arrears" reduced by the value of the repairs,  Thus matter chucked out. See
https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/housing_conditions/legal_remedies_for_disrepair/tenant_deducts_from_rent_or_offsets_rent_arrears_because_of_disrepair#title-1 - No repairs have been indicated or asked for and there is no improvement notice issued 

Tenant has right to appeal to court up to time bailiffs are walking up front path. - Yes im aware of this but the reason for my post was to help give other landlords an idea of timescales and what actually happens because its not easy to actually find that info out

Assuming you get a debt order please ensure debtor, tenant, gets a CCJ thus for any landlord with enough brain to run a credit check will see red flag.  And any other credit application (loan, credit agreement, mobile 'phone contract) proves v expensive or impossible - Dont worry there will be a CCJ at the end of this matter just for the reason you have mentioned. But as i said i am sure she has been planning this for her to get a council property for her and her children

Best wishes to all

Answers in bold above but thanks very much for taking the time to read my post and your questions

Don't think Artful was asking if you applied to be an enforcement officer but did you escalate the case to the high court following possession. Just because you got a 14 day notice doesn't mean the tenant will move out, if she doesn't you will have to make an application to the bailiffs and depending on how busy they are could mean another 3 months wait.

Escalating to the high court means there is the potential for her to be evicted with in a week - 10 days

The hearing was yesterday so the 14 days notice only started yesterday so its only fair and legal to let her have the 14 days notice that the court have issued for her to leave.
Obviously if she is still there in 15 days the bailiffs will be actioned

I messaged her yesterday of the hearing result and her first reaction was that to leave in 14 days is impossible. My reply was shes had almost 3 months since the the S8 so its not really 14 days to find somewhere, its an additional 14 days

SuseOrm

GDB2222 said:

SuseOrm said:

GDB2222 said:

SuseOrm said:

Ms_Chocaholic said:

Richiem1987 said:

As she has children, then they have to house the children, as its not their fault. The tenenant may well assume that just becuase she has children, they will have to house her as well, and that is not always the case. If the council finds she has intentionally made herself and therefore her children homeless, childrens services will apply for an emergency care holder for her children, until the mother can find suitable accomodation, which wont be easy with her history and a CCJ hanging over her head. CS will also give her the oppertunity for a family member to house the children if space is available. She will still be entitled to access to her children (unless there are other issues of course).

Children's Services won't automatically put the matter before the Court for an EPO  - they will see if someone in the parent's network can care for the children in the interim.

No the council will house them … stop putting out nonsense, scaremongering,  some poor parents might be reading this and you’re absolutely terrifying them adding to the stress levels.  

It cost the council £28,000 per child per year (2013 figures) to put those that are in real danger into foster care there isn’t enough facilities for those children so the councils will move heaven and earth to avoid that situation,  that’s completely a side of the absolute trauma it causes for the kids involved. 

Go and watch Kathy come home and thank goodness we’ve moved a long way from those days it seems to me some of you are quite keen to go back to the work houses and women having the children removed from them because they can’t pay the rent we only actually have the OP‘s word that this person is in the situation on purpose.  Thousands will through no fault of their own without immediate intervention if the cost of living keeps rising.  

Being poor isnt a crime.   

According to your version, the tenant has withheld the rent, but has then had that clawed back from her UC. So, she has had no financial benefit. She has been 'forced' to do this in order to jump the queue (and I accept it is an impossibly long queue) for social housing. 

Or, have I misunderstood something?

And, yes, I entirely agree that the most likely outcome is that the council will rehouse her and her children. 

I know nothing of the situation,  neither does the landlord ( or her husband should we say).  But frothing at the mouth at the prospect of a family being traumatised is deeply distasteful.  

But, the family is being "traumatised" because the mother has chosen not to pay her landlord rent. It’s hard to feel sorry for her, and no doubt she will comfort the children by telling them about the Shangri La of wonderful council housing that awaits them. 

Well as anyone with a brain has conceded there wont be anyone traumatised.  Again,  its the gleefully frothing thats distasteful 

GDB2222

SuseOrm said:

GDB2222 said:

SuseOrm said:

GDB2222 said:

SuseOrm said:

Ms_Chocaholic said:

Richiem1987 said:

As she has children, then they have to house the children, as its not their fault. The tenenant may well assume that just becuase she has children, they will have to house her as well, and that is not always the case. If the council finds she has intentionally made herself and therefore her children homeless, childrens services will apply for an emergency care holder for her children, until the mother can find suitable accomodation, which wont be easy with her history and a CCJ hanging over her head. CS will also give her the oppertunity for a family member to house the children if space is available. She will still be entitled to access to her children (unless there are other issues of course).

Children's Services won't automatically put the matter before the Court for an EPO  - they will see if someone in the parent's network can care for the children in the interim.

No the council will house them … stop putting out nonsense, scaremongering,  some poor parents might be reading this and you’re absolutely terrifying them adding to the stress levels.  

It cost the council £28,000 per child per year (2013 figures) to put those that are in real danger into foster care there isn’t enough facilities for those children so the councils will move heaven and earth to avoid that situation,  that’s completely a side of the absolute trauma it causes for the kids involved. 

Go and watch Kathy come home and thank goodness we’ve moved a long way from those days it seems to me some of you are quite keen to go back to the work houses and women having the children removed from them because they can’t pay the rent we only actually have the OP‘s word that this person is in the situation on purpose.  Thousands will through no fault of their own without immediate intervention if the cost of living keeps rising.  

Being poor isnt a crime.   

According to your version, the tenant has withheld the rent, but has then had that clawed back from her UC. So, she has had no financial benefit. She has been 'forced' to do this in order to jump the queue (and I accept it is an impossibly long queue) for social housing. 

Or, have I misunderstood something?

And, yes, I entirely agree that the most likely outcome is that the council will rehouse her and her children. 

I know nothing of the situation,  neither does the landlord ( or her husband should we say).  But frothing at the mouth at the prospect of a family being traumatised is deeply distasteful.  

But, the family is being "traumatised" because the mother has chosen not to pay her landlord rent. It’s hard to feel sorry for her, and no doubt she will comfort the children by telling them about the Shangri La of wonderful council housing that awaits them. 

Well as anyone with a brain has conceded there wont be anyone traumatised.  Again,  its the gleefully frothing thats distasteful 

The family will probably be put in one room B and B emergency accommodation for a few weeks, which won’t be very comfortable, but I agree is hardly traumatic. Then, they will jump the queue and get some social housing that hopefully will be worth all the aggravation. 

It seems totally unfair to the other people in the queue, which is not something that you seem prepared to acknowledge. It’s also been unfair to the landlord, who relied on the rent for a significant part of his income. So, the tenant seems to be acting very selfishly, and I don’t really understand why you said that she is forced into doing this?