Buying unregistered house with missing deeds, should buyer or seller first register?

woodpeckerx

Hi,

In the process of buying an inherited house, deeds cannot be located and due to the time since last sale / mortage its not electronically registered with the Land Registry.

Sellers solicitor wants us to first register on completion, our solicitor suggests seller should do a first registration.

In terms of risk, is there much difference between the two options?

With missing deeds I presume the title will only be granted as a possessory title whoever registers it?

Should we insist seller does a first registration or should we accept we will first register on completion with a missing deeds indemnity policy?

TIA

HobgoblinBT

The lowest risk to you is for the 1st registration to be completed by the seller.  If buying with a mortgage, your lender will require their charge over the property to be fully enforceable so in the circumstances of missing title documents the lender might require the property to be registered prior to advancing funds.

user1977

What's your solicitor's advice? As above, if you're buying with a mortgage then as a minimum you'll need to do what your lender requires.

woodpeckerx

HobgoblinBT said:

The lowest risk to you is for the 1st registration to be completed by the seller.  If buying with a mortgage, your lender will require their charge over the property to be fully enforceable so in the circumstances of missing title documents the lender might require the property to be registered prior to advancing funds.

There will be a small mortgage around 10% LTV, I am unsure if they will insist on prior registration or just accept an indemnity policy.

user1977 said:

What's your solicitor's advice? As above, if you're buying with a mortgage then as a minimum you'll need to do what your lender requires.

Our solicitor has advised and requested that the seller does an expedited first registration. Sellers solicitor says no, their client is firm that that they will not do that and we have to register it.

They have provided a certified copy of an old conveyance claiming this would be the root of tiltle.

canaldumidi

Both solicitors are right.

The seller's solicitor is recommeding the best solution... for his client.

Your solicitor is recommeding the best solution... for his client.

Me? I'd insist the seller registers or I'd walk.

woodpeckerx

canaldumidi said:

Both solicitors are right.

The seller's solicitor is recommeding the best solution... for his client.

Your solicitor is recommeding the best solution... for his client.

Me? I'd insist the seller registers or I'd walk.

What would be your reason for walking?

When you say both are offering the best solution, why is the seller not registering his best solution? If buyers walk he will end up out of pocket with a property he will still find hard to complete a sale with.

TBG01

woodpeckerx said:

canaldumidi said:

Both solicitors are right.

The seller's solicitor is recommeding the best solution... for his client.

Your solicitor is recommeding the best solution... for his client.

Me? I'd insist the seller registers or I'd walk.

When you say both are offering the best solution, why is the seller not registering his best solution?

Because there's more costs, work involved, and first registrations can end up being a nightmare to get registered.

Yes they'll be called onto assist, but as far as the seller and their solicitor is concerned they no longer own the property and its on the buyer to get it registered. No matter how long or difficult it might be.

woodpeckerx

TBG01 said:

woodpeckerx said:

canaldumidi said:

Both solicitors are right.

The seller's solicitor is recommeding the best solution... for his client.

Your solicitor is recommeding the best solution... for his client.

Me? I'd insist the seller registers or I'd walk.

When you say both are offering the best solution, why is the seller not registering his best solution?

Because there's more costs, work involved, and first registrations can end up being a nightmare to get registered.

Yes they'll be called onto assist, but as far as the seller and their solicitor is concerned they no longer own the property and its on the buyer to get it registered. No matter how long or difficult it might be.

Thanks for the replies so far, is my thinking below correct:-

If the seller does not locate the deeds, the title is most likely to be registered as possessory whichever one of us registers it first, is that correct?

An indemnity will be required due the missing title deed, the seller would be expected to pay for that due to him selling with poor title.

If the seller did the first registration he would pay the Scale 1 first registration fee.

If I did the first registration I would pay the Scale 1 first registration fee.

Does this really just come down to who will pay the registration fee or is that too simplistic a view. In the bigger picture of the purchase the registration fee is irrelevant.

GDB2222

woodpeckerx said:

TBG01 said:

woodpeckerx said:

canaldumidi said:

Both solicitors are right.

The seller's solicitor is recommeding the best solution... for his client.

Your solicitor is recommeding the best solution... for his client.

Me? I'd insist the seller registers or I'd walk.

When you say both are offering the best solution, why is the seller not registering his best solution?

Because there's more costs, work involved, and first registrations can end up being a nightmare to get registered.

Yes they'll be called onto assist, but as far as the seller and their solicitor is concerned they no longer own the property and its on the buyer to get it registered. No matter how long or difficult it might be.

Thanks for the replies so far, is my thinking below correct:-

If the seller does not locate the deeds, the title is most likely to be registered as possessory whichever one of us registers it first, is that correct?

An indemnity will be required due the missing title deed, the seller would be expected to pay for that due to him selling with poor title.

If the seller did the first registration he would pay the Scale 1 first registration fee.

If I did the first registration I would pay the Scale 1 first registration fee.

Does this really just come down to who will pay the registration fee or is that too simplistic a view. In the bigger picture of the purchase the registration fee is irrelevant.

Suppose, for a second, there's a big snag, and the property can't be registered. If that happens, would you be happy with the price you are paying? 

Thrugelmir

The mortgage lender is the one with the greatest risk exposure. Their money, their decision.  

woodpeckerx

GDB2222 said:

woodpeckerx said:

TBG01 said:

woodpeckerx said:

canaldumidi said:

Both solicitors are right.

The seller's solicitor is recommeding the best solution... for his client.

Your solicitor is recommeding the best solution... for his client.

Me? I'd insist the seller registers or I'd walk.

When you say both are offering the best solution, why is the seller not registering his best solution?

Because there's more costs, work involved, and first registrations can end up being a nightmare to get registered.

Yes they'll be called onto assist, but as far as the seller and their solicitor is concerned they no longer own the property and its on the buyer to get it registered. No matter how long or difficult it might be.

Thanks for the replies so far, is my thinking below correct:-

If the seller does not locate the deeds, the title is most likely to be registered as possessory whichever one of us registers it first, is that correct?

An indemnity will be required due the missing title deed, the seller would be expected to pay for that due to him selling with poor title.

If the seller did the first registration he would pay the Scale 1 first registration fee.

If I did the first registration I would pay the Scale 1 first registration fee.

Does this really just come down to who will pay the registration fee or is that too simplistic a view. In the bigger picture of the purchase the registration fee is irrelevant.

Suppose, for a second, there's a big snag, and the property can't be registered. If that happens, would you be happy with the price you are paying? 

That leads me to ask, is it common / likely that a property can't be registered?