Buying unregistered house with missing deeds, should buyer or seller first register?

GDB2222

woodpeckerx said:

Tiglet2 said:

I think where the seller does not have the old deeds and conveyances needed to make the application for first registration at the Land Registry and the evidence needed to prove the line of ownership to the current sellers is sketchy, then the responsibility of sorting out the registration should fall to the sellers and their solicitor.  I can understand why your solicitor does not want to do this following completion, as the application to the Land Registry would then become their/your problem to solve.  

If the executors are still waiting for probate to be granted, they can initiate the registration process at the same time.  Yes, it will take time and delay the transaction, plus there will be costs involved for the seller, but otherwise they will become your costs and it will probably be very stressful waiting for the Land Registry to update the register months and months after you complete, because there will be no longer any urgent need to expedite the process.

Thanks, that makes sense, I will talk to our solicitor.

They are still waiting for the probate, how would they initiate the registration process before probate is granted so I can suggest it?

14 weeks in and it seems like no progress with anything.

I understand why you are so frustrated. Are you worried that they might sell to someone else?  

If prices are rising in your area, they may increase the price?

Have you thought of a lock out agreement, perhaps?

canaldumidi

I would put this on the back burner.

Inform the sellers you want them to do 1st registration before you'll Exchange. If they refuse, you walk.

If they agree, yes there'll be a delay so during that delay start viewing other properties. If you find something else that's cheaper, better, easier, then switch. If not, then when this property is registeed, proceed.

theoretica

It seems to me that an unregistered property with lost deeds must be worth considerably less than a registered one.  Maybe pointing out how much you would need to lower your offer by would make registering the property seem more attractive to the sellers.

woodpeckerx

GDB2222 said:

woodpeckerx said:

Tiglet2 said:

I think where the seller does not have the old deeds and conveyances needed to make the application for first registration at the Land Registry and the evidence needed to prove the line of ownership to the current sellers is sketchy, then the responsibility of sorting out the registration should fall to the sellers and their solicitor.  I can understand why your solicitor does not want to do this following completion, as the application to the Land Registry would then become their/your problem to solve.  

If the executors are still waiting for probate to be granted, they can initiate the registration process at the same time.  Yes, it will take time and delay the transaction, plus there will be costs involved for the seller, but otherwise they will become your costs and it will probably be very stressful waiting for the Land Registry to update the register months and months after you complete, because there will be no longer any urgent need to expedite the process.

Thanks, that makes sense, I will talk to our solicitor.

They are still waiting for the probate, how would they initiate the registration process before probate is granted so I can suggest it?

14 weeks in and it seems like no progress with anything.

I understand why you are so frustrated. Are you worried that they might sell to someone else?  

If prices are rising in your area, they may increase the price?

Have you thought of a lock out agreement, perhaps?

No not worried they will sell to someone else, if they do they do. It's by no means a bargain and if it went back on the market it wouldn't surprise me if they got 30-50k less for it.

If it all falls to pieces I could probably sell for more and get a better buy, I could be between 50k and 100k better off but its taken us 2 years to get to this point where we found what we wanted so we are keen to carry on with it.

I'm not sure I could go through any more estate agent lies though, we've lost 3 buyers mainly due to estate agent lies, this is going downhill rapidly and once again we have been lied to by an agent, I'm surprised anyone actually gets to move house!

user1977

theoretica said:

It seems to me that an unregistered property with lost deeds must be worth considerably less than a registered one.  

It will be unmortgageable unless the vendors register it first (and adequate indemnity insurance is provided).

The UK Lending Handbook (which is the set of instructions most mortgage lenders use) says possessory title is acceptable provided it's already a registered title on completion, and there's insurance in place:

https://lendershandbook.ukfinance.org.uk/lenders-handbook/englandandwales/?srch=possessory&search=Submit#C9107

woodpeckerx

user1977 said:

theoretica said:

It seems to me that an unregistered property with lost deeds must be worth considerably less than a registered one.  

It will be unmortgageable unless the vendors register it first (and adequate indemnity insurance is provided).

The UK Lending Handbook (which is the set of instructions most mortgage lenders use) says possessory title is acceptable provided it's already a registered title on completion, and there's insurance in place:

https://lendershandbook.ukfinance.org.uk/lenders-handbook/englandandwales/?srch=possessory&search=Submit#C9107

Doesn't this mean it is mortgageable?

 or on completion the borrower will be registered at the Land Registry as registered proprietor of a possessory title

user1977

woodpeckerx said:

user1977 said:

theoretica said:

It seems to me that an unregistered property with lost deeds must be worth considerably less than a registered one.  

It will be unmortgageable unless the vendors register it first (and adequate indemnity insurance is provided).

The UK Lending Handbook (which is the set of instructions most mortgage lenders use) says possessory title is acceptable provided it's already a registered title on completion, and there's insurance in place:

https://lendershandbook.ukfinance.org.uk/lenders-handbook/englandandwales/?srch=possessory&search=Submit#C9107

Doesn't this mean it is mortgageable?

 or on completion the borrower will be registered at the Land Registry as registered proprietor of a possessory title

D'oh! Possibly, yes. Assuming your solicitor is happy to sign off to the lender that you'll get a registered title.

GDB2222

user1977 said:

woodpeckerx said:

user1977 said:

theoretica said:

It seems to me that an unregistered property with lost deeds must be worth considerably less than a registered one.  

It will be unmortgageable unless the vendors register it first (and adequate indemnity insurance is provided).

The UK Lending Handbook (which is the set of instructions most mortgage lenders use) says possessory title is acceptable provided it's already a registered title on completion, and there's insurance in place:

https://lendershandbook.ukfinance.org.uk/lenders-handbook/englandandwales/?srch=possessory&search=Submit#C9107

Doesn't this mean it is mortgageable?

 or on completion the borrower will be registered at the Land Registry as registered proprietor of a possessory title

D'oh! Possibly, yes. Assuming your solicitor is happy to sign off to the lender that you'll get a registered title.

Isn't this going round in a circle, as it sounds like the op's solicitor would be reluctant to do that.

woodpeckerx

GDB2222 said:

user1977 said:

woodpeckerx said:

user1977 said:

theoretica said:

It seems to me that an unregistered property with lost deeds must be worth considerably less than a registered one.  

It will be unmortgageable unless the vendors register it first (and adequate indemnity insurance is provided).

The UK Lending Handbook (which is the set of instructions most mortgage lenders use) says possessory title is acceptable provided it's already a registered title on completion, and there's insurance in place:

https://lendershandbook.ukfinance.org.uk/lenders-handbook/englandandwales/?srch=possessory&search=Submit#C9107

Doesn't this mean it is mortgageable?

 or on completion the borrower will be registered at the Land Registry as registered proprietor of a possessory title

D'oh! Possibly, yes. Assuming your solicitor is happy to sign off to the lender that you'll get a registered title.

Isn't this going round in a circle, as it sounds like the op's solicitor would be reluctant to do that.

I've been reviewing all the correspondance again and we have been supplied a a certified copy a conveyance dated well over 30 years ago. The sellers solicitor has remarked this would be the root of title and this is why they refuse to register it.

GDB2222

woodpeckerx said:

GDB2222 said:

user1977 said:

woodpeckerx said:

user1977 said:

theoretica said:

It seems to me that an unregistered property with lost deeds must be worth considerably less than a registered one.  

It will be unmortgageable unless the vendors register it first (and adequate indemnity insurance is provided).

The UK Lending Handbook (which is the set of instructions most mortgage lenders use) says possessory title is acceptable provided it's already a registered title on completion, and there's insurance in place:

https://lendershandbook.ukfinance.org.uk/lenders-handbook/englandandwales/?srch=possessory&search=Submit#C9107

Doesn't this mean it is mortgageable?

 or on completion the borrower will be registered at the Land Registry as registered proprietor of a possessory title

D'oh! Possibly, yes. Assuming your solicitor is happy to sign off to the lender that you'll get a registered title.

Isn't this going round in a circle, as it sounds like the op's solicitor would be reluctant to do that.

I've been reviewing all the correspondance again and we have been supplied a a certified copy a conveyance dated well over 30 years ago. The sellers solicitor has remarked this would be the root of title and this is why they refuse to register it.

You have been at this 14 weeks, and the vendors still don't have probate. The turnround time at the Probate Registry, at the moment, seems to be 6-8 weeks.