Buying unregistered house with missing deeds, should buyer or seller first register?

GDB2222

woodpeckerx said:

canaldumidi said:

woodpeckerx said:

canaldumidi said:

Both solicitors are right.

The seller's solicitor is recommeding the best solution... for his client.

Your solicitor is recommeding the best solution... for his client.

Me? I'd insist the seller registers or I'd walk.

What would be your reason for walking?

When you say both are offering the best solution, why is the seller not registering his best solution? If buyers walk he will end up out of pocket with a property he will still find hard to complete a sale with.

The best solution for the seller is for the buyer to undertake 1st registration on Completion. That is therefore what the seller's solicitor is recommending. Less work/cost for the seller. Less delay. No risk to the seller.

Best solution for buyer is for seller to understak 1st registratiom. Yes, some delay, but less cost/work and definately ess risk. The buyer then has certainty about what he is buying: a property wth a registeed ttle, albeit probably not full title guaranteed. There is a (admittedly) small chance that when the buyer comes to register, the Land Registry raise issues/questions, refuse to register, or other issue arise meaning his purchase is in doubt.

 

Thanks for that, if the deeds are found does that change things?

Also if we insist on seller registration first, does the seller wait for the probate and then register in thier name or register now in the deceased name? Not even sure if the latter is possible?

Without probate, the "sellers" cannot deal with the property. That’s the point of probate, ie to establish who the executors are and what the will of the deceased is. 

woodpeckerx

GDB2222 said:

woodpeckerx said:

canaldumidi said:

woodpeckerx said:

canaldumidi said:

Both solicitors are right.

The seller's solicitor is recommeding the best solution... for his client.

Your solicitor is recommeding the best solution... for his client.

Me? I'd insist the seller registers or I'd walk.

What would be your reason for walking?

When you say both are offering the best solution, why is the seller not registering his best solution? If buyers walk he will end up out of pocket with a property he will still find hard to complete a sale with.

The best solution for the seller is for the buyer to undertake 1st registration on Completion. That is therefore what the seller's solicitor is recommending. Less work/cost for the seller. Less delay. No risk to the seller.

Best solution for buyer is for seller to understak 1st registratiom. Yes, some delay, but less cost/work and definately ess risk. The buyer then has certainty about what he is buying: a property wth a registeed ttle, albeit probably not full title guaranteed. There is a (admittedly) small chance that when the buyer comes to register, the Land Registry raise issues/questions, refuse to register, or other issue arise meaning his purchase is in doubt.

 

Thanks for that, if the deeds are found does that change things?

Also if we insist on seller registration first, does the seller wait for the probate and then register in thier name or register now in the deceased name? Not even sure if the latter is possible?

Without probate, the "sellers" cannot deal with the property. That’s the whole point of probate.

I understand that but wondered whether it could be registered now in the deceased name to speed things up a bit.

Thrugelmir

woodpeckerx said:

Thrugelmir said:

The mortgage lender is the one with the greatest risk exposure. Their money, their decision.  

That doesn't answer the points at all and I will have far more invested than a lender.

The bottom line is that the lender won't advance the money to allow you complete the purchase. Your personal view has zero bearing on the outcome. Not your decision to make. 

woodpeckerx

Thrugelmir said:

woodpeckerx said:

Thrugelmir said:

The mortgage lender is the one with the greatest risk exposure. Their money, their decision.  

That doesn't answer the points at all and I will have far more invested than a lender.

The bottom line is that the lender won't advance the money to allow you complete the purchase. Your personal view has zero bearing on the outcome. Not your decision to make. 

It is my decision as I could buy without the lender, I would prefer not to do that though. I am trying to get answers to my questions to understand the risks involved.

user1977

woodpeckerx said:

GDB2222 said:

woodpeckerx said:

canaldumidi said:

woodpeckerx said:

canaldumidi said:

Both solicitors are right.

The seller's solicitor is recommeding the best solution... for his client.

Your solicitor is recommeding the best solution... for his client.

Me? I'd insist the seller registers or I'd walk.

What would be your reason for walking?

When you say both are offering the best solution, why is the seller not registering his best solution? If buyers walk he will end up out of pocket with a property he will still find hard to complete a sale with.

The best solution for the seller is for the buyer to undertake 1st registration on Completion. That is therefore what the seller's solicitor is recommending. Less work/cost for the seller. Less delay. No risk to the seller.

Best solution for buyer is for seller to understak 1st registratiom. Yes, some delay, but less cost/work and definately ess risk. The buyer then has certainty about what he is buying: a property wth a registeed ttle, albeit probably not full title guaranteed. There is a (admittedly) small chance that when the buyer comes to register, the Land Registry raise issues/questions, refuse to register, or other issue arise meaning his purchase is in doubt.

 

Thanks for that, if the deeds are found does that change things?

Also if we insist on seller registration first, does the seller wait for the probate and then register in thier name or register now in the deceased name? Not even sure if the latter is possible?

Without probate, the "sellers" cannot deal with the property. That’s the whole point of probate.

I understand that but wondered whether it could be registered now in the deceased name to speed things up a bit.

I don't think third parties can voluntarily register somebody else's property (which effectively is what would be involved). Nothing material can be done with a deceased's estate until probate is granted.

Tiglet2

I think where the seller does not have the old deeds and conveyances needed to make the application for first registration at the Land Registry and the evidence needed to prove the line of ownership to the current sellers is sketchy, then the responsibility of sorting out the registration should fall to the sellers and their solicitor.  I can understand why your solicitor does not want to do this following completion, as the application to the Land Registry would then become their/your problem to solve.  

If the executors are still waiting for probate to be granted, they can initiate the registration process at the same time.  Yes, it will take time and delay the transaction, plus there will be costs involved for the seller, but otherwise they will become your costs and it will probably be very stressful waiting for the Land Registry to update the register months and months after you complete, because there will be no longer any urgent need to expedite the process.  Also, if the Land Registry raises any requisitions (queries) about the application, your solicitor will probably need the assistance of the seller's solicitor and, after completion, there will no longer be any need for the seller's solicitor to help in an urgent manner.

RAS

And not to put too fine a point on it, once you've paid for the property, the sellers have no incentive to provide any of the information required by the Land Registry, if they have questions.

If the executors do the registration, they at least know Uncle Jimmy lived there before he married etc. 

woodpeckerx

Tiglet2 said:

I think where the seller does not have the old deeds and conveyances needed to make the application for first registration at the Land Registry and the evidence needed to prove the line of ownership to the current sellers is sketchy, then the responsibility of sorting out the registration should fall to the sellers and their solicitor.  I can understand why your solicitor does not want to do this following completion, as the application to the Land Registry would then become their/your problem to solve.  

If the executors are still waiting for probate to be granted, they can initiate the registration process at the same time.  Yes, it will take time and delay the transaction, plus there will be costs involved for the seller, but otherwise they will become your costs and it will probably be very stressful waiting for the Land Registry to update the register months and months after you complete, because there will be no longer any urgent need to expedite the process.

Thanks, that makes sense, I will talk to our solicitor.

They are still waiting for the probate, how would they initiate the registration process before probate is granted so I can suggest it?

14 weeks in and it seems like no progress with anything.

TBG01

woodpeckerx said:

Tiglet2 said:

I think where the seller does not have the old deeds and conveyances needed to make the application for first registration at the Land Registry and the evidence needed to prove the line of ownership to the current sellers is sketchy, then the responsibility of sorting out the registration should fall to the sellers and their solicitor.  I can understand why your solicitor does not want to do this following completion, as the application to the Land Registry would then become their/your problem to solve.  

If the executors are still waiting for probate to be granted, they can initiate the registration process at the same time.  Yes, it will take time and delay the transaction, plus there will be costs involved for the seller, but otherwise they will become your costs and it will probably be very stressful waiting for the Land Registry to update the register months and months after you complete, because there will be no longer any urgent need to expedite the process.

They are still waiting for the probate, how would they initiate the registration process before probate is granted so I can suggest it?

They can't.

The only thing they can do now is prepare their application in readiness of Probate being granted.  

FreeBear

woodpeckerx said: They are still waiting for the probate, how would they initiate the registration process before probate is granted so I can suggest it?

Put simply, they can do nothing until probate is granted. They can fill in the forms and search for any supporting documents, but they won't be able to sign any paperwork & submit it to the LR. It is going to be a waiting game on both sides.