Private driveway

MothballsWallet

Umkomaas said:

The 'remedy' for trespass is limited to the recompense for the actual damages caused to the landowner. If it's a free car park then there doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent, especially if the trespasser is hard-faced enough to ignore the threat. A small claim is a possibility, but claiming for a peppercorn amount, is not particularly cost effective. 

Being 'miffed' about the unwelcome use of the spaces is difficult to quantify in monetary terms. 

@Lindsey006 does this car park serve a set of local shops and businesses perchance?

If so, the landowner could say that this is costing those businesses money (especially if this car park is the closest), so if we have this situation:

• Spaces taken up by the motor trader per day = x
• Minimum average daily takings for the local businesses = a
• Maximum average daily takings for the local businesses = b

You're talking about a minimum loss of (x * a) and a maximum loss of (x * b) per day from this trader's actions.

It's not a direct monetary loss, but what if the trader's selfish behaviour is causing people to not use this car park and then that impacts the local businesses and economy in terms of lost revenue?

It might not justify "miffed" in money terms, but it might be useful evidence to give a judge or the council to show what the trader's selfishness is doing to the area that could secure some form of control order.

Lindsey006

Yes that is exactly what it is used for - you can have your hair done, get a tattoo and have a nice coffee in the cafe. plus residents of flats above the shop park mainly in the evening. In theory if customers for the shops couldn’t park they might go somewhere else so that is worth considering.
I think the landowner has not thought this through for sure, he is becoming annoyed with UKPC because so far they have given him poor advice re the ANPR and the rights of way which they had basically ignored. 

I will see if he will let me help him with the vehicle trader provided that he drops the UKPC involvement. My neighbours and I have never noticed but clearly is frustrating for the landowner. He said it only happens occasionally.

I will contact him tomorrow. Some really good ideas here so thank you for those. 

I think the landlord hopes UKPC have all the answers, that’s what they are telling him. How much does it cost if UKPC monitor a car park?

Umkomaas

How much does it cost if UKPC monitor a car park?

Nothing - it's for free, provided they can take all the PCN receipts. That's why they initially appear to be so attractive to landowners, until wised-up motorists avoid the site, then income to the retailers served by the car park falls through the floor!

patient_dream

The story gets deeper. Now there are retail outllets with flats above.
In such circumstances there is normally a serivice area behind where residents can park

You say ... "he is becoming annoyed with UKPC because so far they have given him poor advice"

You say the other residents know nothing about this ...

An honest question for an honest answer ..... Are you the landowner ?

Lindsey006

No I am definitely not the landowner. 

There is no service area behind the retail units. All deliveries come in via the car park.

Other residents who use the car park eg business owners and flat owners/renters are aware of plans to introduce cameras. I meant other local users of the car park are not aware, sorry if that wasn’t clear. The residents of the flats have leasehold properties or they rent the flats and can use a car parking space. In their leases the landowner controls their parking. In theory their visitors should park in the road.
 It is different for my house which is freehold with the right of way.

Coupon-mad

Yes that is exactly what it is used for - you can have your hair done, get a tattoo and have a nice coffee in the cafe. plus residents of flats above the shop park mainly in the evening. 

OMG that is completely unsuitable for ANPR or CCTV.

Does he realise that EVERY visitor and EVERY flat resident would be at risk of a PCN?  He will utterly alienate ALL the shops and businesses and their staff will get PCNs as well.

This will be a disaster.  He DOES NOT need any parking firm. All the leasehold shops and businesses will suffer and blame him.

Did you show him the links i gave to to the two cautionary tales where Smart Parking are killing trade and penalising staff at a similar place?

Lindsey006

Yes I have.

I am not sure how the landowner can find out the details of the registered keeper of cars.
I completely agree this could seriously impact the retailers, certainly it would put me off. Road parking is free so I think it might cause a highway issue as more people would potentially choose not to come in the car park.

Coupon-mad

Landowners can fill in a V888 to get from the DVLA, keepers of cars that are causing an issue.

Fruitcake

This is how a landowner can obtain registered keeper details from the DVLA.

Request information about a vehicle or its registered keeper from DVLA - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

fisherjim

All this because of one rogue car trader this has not been thought through at all.

The sales team at UKPC will have sold all the benefits to the landowner without any of the negatives being mentioned and their big hook in is "it's all free to the landowner including signage and camera installation, we only take the pcn revenue" which on 20 spaces won't be much without their normal scamming tactics believe us.

The landowner should target the rogue trader not the community or this will not end well for you, the businesses, the flats or the community.

This quote is from another thread on here where a land owner tried to get rid of a PPC because they were targeting even the land owner and staff at a community centre be warned:

When Tye demanded that the PPC withdraw from the site, he received a letter from the firm’s lawyers threatening court proceedings to recover ‘significant’ lost profits and legal costs.