UC LCWRA appeal

tifo

Spoonie_Turtle said:

poppy12345 said:

Do be aware that the mobilising descriptor considers your ability to use a self propel wheelchair.

This is very important.

tifo said:

poppy12345 said:

I did this with my mandatory request statement and evidence, I went through each descriptor and how I met it. I also quoted legislation including guidance for the assessor for the assessment. I showed how they didn't follow the guidance.

You only need to meet one of the LCWRA descriptors. You can see them here. https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/universal-credit-uc/uc-faq/limited-capability-for-work-related-activity

Is it one or both eyes?

Also have a look at the 'substantial risk' for LCW and LCWRA (under 'Issues').  If being forced to travel places - to the Jobcentre, to work - and to concentrate on visual work (including work-related activity such as courses) would cause deterioration or exacerbate symptoms, e.g. causing more migraines, tell them.

But given that you're not quite sure, if you can find anyone experienced to help you it would probably be very beneficial.

To be very clear though, the WCA is about assessing your ability to do any form of work, not whether you can do the kind of job you used to do.

I didn't know they expect me to use a self propel wheelchair, however I recall it's mentioned in their bundle. But this does not get rid of the pain from the gout. I still can't walk. Is it realistic to be moving a wheelchair everywhere in an office, even home, or concentrate on work, the screen makes the eye conditions worse, when i'm in constant pain?

It's the one eye, but when it tears a lot the other eye does too. I can't see from the affected eye, the other eye is OK. I have sight/field tests at every 6 months hospital appt because we have to keep an eye (pardon the pun) on the unaffected eye.

I've looked at the 'substantial issues' for LCW/LCWRA. What you say may apply, i.e. being forced to travel and concentrate on visual work exacerbates the symptoms. At the time of the 2 applications, more so the first, there was no chance of me travelling or doing any work. Any use of the computer screen for a short while would make my eyes red, watery and give me a headache. It is for this main reason that my GP gave me (un)fit notes for the whole time. My usual job involved constant use of a computer, phone etc and in any jobs I would normally do this is the case. These are not manual jobs.

You're right, a benefit advisor would be helpful but depends if I can find one in the short time the appeal gave me.

I've been general about jobs, though i've mentioned my usual kind of work, my conditions affect any job as it's visual and mobile.

As an example, i've had a very bad gout episode yesterday, I was totally immobilised and in pain the whole day, unable to take a step never mind walk. This puts strain on my calf muscle too and I could see the veins sticking out. It's not gone today and might stay at this level for a long time.

If I was in work, i'd have to call in sick and say "I don't know when i'll be better". I'd do the same with my eye conditions. I'd be doing this so many times a year i'd be surprised if they would keep me. This is the 'majority' of days I keep mentioning.

poppy12345

tifo said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

poppy12345 said:

Do be aware that the mobilising descriptor considers your ability to use a self propel wheelchair.

This is very important.

tifo said:

poppy12345 said:

I did this with my mandatory request statement and evidence, I went through each descriptor and how I met it. I also quoted legislation including guidance for the assessor for the assessment. I showed how they didn't follow the guidance.

You only need to meet one of the LCWRA descriptors. You can see them here. https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/universal-credit-uc/uc-faq/limited-capability-for-work-related-activity

Is it one or both eyes?

Also have a look at the 'substantial risk' for LCW and LCWRA (under 'Issues').  If being forced to travel places - to the Jobcentre, to work - and to concentrate on visual work (including work-related activity such as courses) would cause deterioration or exacerbate symptoms, e.g. causing more migraines, tell them.

But given that you're not quite sure, if you can find anyone experienced to help you it would probably be very beneficial.

To be very clear though, the WCA is about assessing your ability to do any form of work, not whether you can do the kind of job you used to do.

I didn't know they expect me to use a self propel wheelchair, however I recall it's mentioned in their bundle. But this does not get rid of the pain from the gout. I still can't walk. Is it realistic to be moving a wheelchair everywhere in an office, even home, or concentrate on work, the screen makes the eye conditions worse, when i'm in constant pain?

It clearly states this in the link i posted on 19th May. If you're able to use a self propel wheelchair then you wouldn't need to walk. Mobilising isn't just about being unable to walk.

They take into consideration your ability to do any type of work and not just the job you used to do.

tifo

poppy12345 said:

It clearly states this in the link i posted on 19th May. If you're able to use a self propel wheelchair then you wouldn't need to walk. Mobilising isn't just about being unable to walk.

They take into consideration your ability to do any type of work and not just the job you used to do.

I understand that they're saying walking aids can be used. But the point i'm trying to make to them is that even using a self propelled wheelchair doesn't make the pain go away. And in any job, not just an office job, i'd need to get off the wheelchair sometime for whatever task. In the first place i'd need to get in it and go to the workplace. Do the DWP expect me to work with throbbing pain and not get off the wheelchair at any time during the day? And if i've the eye problems at the same time how will I see? Who will put my eye drops in for me (at least 3-4 times a day for 1 medication) when i'm at work? I can't do it.

These are questions i'm asking for work relating activity. I know it may seem like i'm batting on about the same thing but I need to manage my arguments.

Spoonie_Turtle

tifo said:

poppy12345 said:

It clearly states this in the link i posted on 19th May. If you're able to use a self propel wheelchair then you wouldn't need to walk. Mobilising isn't just about being unable to walk.

They take into consideration your ability to do any type of work and not just the job you used to do.

I understand that they're saying walking aids can be used. But the point i'm trying to make to them is that even using a self propelled wheelchair doesn't make the pain go away. And in any job, not just an office job, i'd need to get off the wheelchair sometime for whatever task. In the first place i'd need to get in it and go to the workplace. Do the DWP expect me to work with throbbing pain and not get off the wheelchair at any time during the day? And if i've the eye problems at the same time how will I see? Who will put my eye drops in for me (at least 3-4 times a day for 1 medication) when i'm at work? I can't do it.

I don't quite understand this argument.  Plenty of full-time wheelchair users work.  (That said, one of the LCWRA criteria does look at the ability to transfer between seats https://wcainfo.net/activities/transferring-from-one-seated-position-to-another-lcwra)

The pain is, in some ways, a separate issue; if it affects your ability to do any of the other activities (not just potentially self-propelling a manual wheelchair) then you need to tell them that.  This may include any of the mental/cognitive function descriptors, given that severe pain affects ability to think.

How will you see?  That's a good point - you will need to make clear why a condition in one eye affects your ability to see out of the other, otherwise they may assume it should be fine.  [One would hope a tribunal would explore that to establish the facts, but just to be sure.]

Interesting point about the medication, that might come under 'substantial risk'.  (Presumably then you have someone who does it at home for you.)

Much admiration for you trying to do this yourself, but in your case even if you can't find someone before the submission date I would probably think it worth still trying to find someone - as I said, I've not had to appeal so I don't know quite how it all works, but I'd have thought having someone to advise, even if it's after the submission date, would be better than not at all.

Alice_Holt

tifo said:

poppy12345 said:

It clearly states this in the link i posted on 19th May. If you're able to use a self propel wheelchair then you wouldn't need to walk. Mobilising isn't just about being unable to walk.

They take into consideration your ability to do any type of work and not just the job you used to do.

I understand that they're saying walking aids can be used. But the point i'm trying to make to them is that even using a self propelled wheelchair doesn't make the pain go away. 

    But it does mean that you can mobilise (more than 50m), so you would not get into the LCWRA on that descriptor (or your argument), unless you can show that you can't reliably repeatedly use a manual wheelchair. This could be if, for instance, someone had upper body and hand pain/ difficulties or spinal issues that impended the physical effort to propel a wheelchair in a workplace.

   From what I gathered from your posts, I feel you may have a better argument to be assessed as not fit for work with the risk to health exceptional criteria:
https://wcainfo.net/issues/substantial-risk-lcw

  
 

tifo

Thanks for the points above. I get what you all say.

I'm trying to keep my arguments on ability to work which is what the WCA is about (I think). What i'm getting from everywhere is that it's about meeting the descriptors, which may or may not be relevant to real world workplaces. I think they would be considering they're drafted by some very clever people.

I think it's an uphill struggle and i'm on the losing side. In my opinion, and it's an opinion only, if I don't meet the LCWRA criteria even at the time I completed the first application form then I just don't know. I'm lost.

I try and answer your posts as best as I can.

tifo

Spoonie_Turtle said:

I don't quite understand this argument.  Plenty of full-time wheelchair users work.

The pain is, in some ways, a separate issue; if it affects your ability to do any of the other activities (not just potentially self-propelling a manual wheelchair) then you need to tell them that.  This may include any of the mental/cognitive function descriptors, given that severe pain affects ability to think.

How will you see?  That's a good point - you will need to make clear why a condition in one eye affects your ability to see out of the other, otherwise they may assume it should be fine.  [One would hope a tribunal would explore that to establish the facts, but just to be sure.]

Interesting point about the medication, that might come under 'substantial risk'.  (Presumably then you have someone who does it at home for you.)

Much admiration for you trying to do this yourself, but in your case even if you can't find someone before the submission date I would probably think it worth still trying to find someone - as I said, I've not had to appeal so I don't know quite how it all works, but I'd have thought having someone to advise, even if it's after the submission date, would be better than not at all.

 I agree that plenty of full time wheelchair users work. But do they still work when they're in considerable pain?

I've looked at the descriptors for mental/cognitive functions and they seem to relate to different issues than pain. However, it is a point to bring up in my arguments. My point is that the (severe) pain affects my ability to concentrate mentally and physically on work related tasks which have to be done with no mistakes. My usual job involves an office and computer screens, getting up for printing etc. but i'm considering the general workplace unskilled/skilled not just my work.

The conditions affects my left eye, I cannot see from it, when it's painful and tearful/watery, the other eye also waters though no pain, for some reason both eyes are tearful and it lasts for a long time, sometimes hours. This means I cannot see properly for work. This is not the same as being at home. During these episodes, I need to lie down as I usually also have a migraine to the left side of my head from the left eye. The left eye has constant high pressure and sometimes I get a headache and slight pain and tears but nothing more. It's all variable. It could happen any day for any length of time. I can't predict or control it.

With the eye drops, my partner has to dispense these. I can't see from the eye and using a mirror isn't easy normally or when i'm in pain. I don't know if that's expected? When my eye conditions were severe for nearly 2 years at the beginning, at times I was using 4 eye drops medications (2 for the pain and 2 for the high pressure) with 1 drop 4 times a day from each, that's 12 drops a day so usually 1 every hour. This carried on for a few months until the hospital slowly stopped a few of them so it was 6 drops a day then 4 etc. Now it's a few drops as and when needed for the pain, the high eye pressure they just let do what it does. Because I can't see from that eye they've not done anything to save vision apart from pain management, which was to include surgery. If I was at work and with eye pain, i'd need someone to dispense 4 eye drops. I'm sure the DWP will say why not 2 in the morning and 2 when you come back but the pain would still be there during the day.

I've asked several advisors in the past but most say no chance of winning. So I have to try myself.

tifo

tifo said:

I meet more of the PIP descriptors.

I've also got a date for the PIP appeal in a few weeks and i'll start a new thread for it.

tifo

Should I be quoting case law in my submission (going to do it today online)?

The DWP have quoted cases, but I guess they have standard responses they send to everyone.

poppy12345

Why are you so focused on quoting case law? Just focused on which group you think you should be in and why.