UC LCWRA appeal

poppy12345

I agree with Alice here, don't mix the two different benefits. You need to concentrate on the one for each individual appeal.

tifo

"I'd be trying to argue that you were unfit for work at the time of the assessment".

• I met the criteria at the time of both applications and the assessment, I still suffer from my conditions. They're for life. My eye conditions will not improve but get worse.

"They will undoubtedly sympathise with you about the extraordinary DWP delay in organising the WCA, but all the evidence they have from the DWP relates to that decision date".

• My argument was that the only reason I didn't have the first assessment in 2019 is because the DWP lost my first UC50 application form. However, last week I found out that they closed the claim on the 'send by' date, that's the day I posted it, they received it next working day. They usually take a few weeks recording it on their system anyway. The assessor says they received it, claim was closed so they sent it to DWP who apparently destroyed it under GDPR.

• They didn't really close the claim because 3 months later they asked me where is my UC50 application form and I sent them the recorded delivery proof to show it was received. They didn't say anything until they asked me to complete another UC50 application form a year later in 2020.

• My conditions were severe in 2019 for at least 18 months, I still suffer from them and will for life. Had I had the assessment in 2019 I *think* I would've met the LCWRA criteria much more easily, though the assessors do what they do

• From the time I came to UC until after the decision letter I had continuous (un)fit notes for the whole 3 years.
  

"Getting your medical records from your surgery (by way of a SAR under GDPR). This may help you to demonstrate that at the date the WCA should have been carried out, the LCWRA applied (but I'm really not sure to what extent a tribunal panel could make a ruling based on this evidence, as it's the DWP WCA decision they are looking at)".

• I sent my GP records, hospital documents (around 20) and colour photos with my claim forms in 2019 and 2020, more with my reconsideration request. The WCA assessors (2 assessments) didn't look at much of this I think. The PIP assessor didn't list any evidence 'seen'.

"Consider a pre action judicial review letter re the delay (with the help of your local advice charity)".

• I'll take a look at this, don't know how to do it myself yet.

"Good luck".

• Thank you all.

tifo

poppy12345 said:

I agree with Alice here, don't mix the two different benefits. You need to concentrate on the one for each individual appeal.

Yes, at the WCA appeal I will say that i'm here to tell you how my conditions affect my work capability and, whilst daily living is some part of this, the assessment was about my ability to work.

It's the DWP who made the PIP claim part of their WCA bundle but without my side of the correspondence, i.e they included my PIP claim, their decision, MR, their decision. But not my statement with MR request and evidence.

They said i'm OK with daily living so OK to work (I dispute this).

All assessments said a lot about my good (minority) days not my bad (majority) days as a way of saying i don't meet the criteria. And the PIP assessment report is full of things I did not say.

Spoonie_Turtle

Apologies, I must have misinterpreted this part of your post

This means I would have passed the criteria for LCWRA as my eye conditions were severe and I was totally incapable of work. By losing the form and delaying with covid, the assessment 2 years and 7 months later meant DWP were in a better position to decline as I was slightly better, though not fit, 

If you still meet the criteria for LCWRA then your main focus needs to be on which descriptor(s) and why.  Beyond that all I can advise is to read the AdviceNow link Alice_Holt posted. 

Is there any chance of you being able to get anyone to help, anyone experienced with tribunals?  Some useful links here https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/help-directory

Edit: I'm pretty sure DWP are overstepping by including PIP in their argument.  Just out of interest, did you win your challenge in the end?  Regardless, the tribunal will know not to conflate the two.

All the best with it!

tifo

Spoonie_Turtle said:

If you still meet the criteria for LCWRA then your main focus needs to be on which descriptor(s) and why. 

I did this with my mandatory request statement and evidence, I went through each descriptor and how I met it. I also quoted legislation including guidance for the assessor for the assessment. I showed how they didn't follow the guidance.

The law says the descriptor must be met for the 'majority' of days, there's no definition of majority hence anything more than 50% or 183 days is the majority. But the assessments were only about how I am on the minority days as the de facto case.

Spoonie_Turtle said:

I'm pretty sure DWP are overstepping by including PIP in their argument.  Just out of interest, did you win your challenge in the end?  Regardless, the tribunal will know not to conflate the two.

I think they are too.

No, i've not had the PIP tribunal appeal yet though it was requested a month or so before the WCA appeal. If i'd won my PIP appeal the DWP wouldn't be including it with my WCA appeal.

tifo

Just wanted to say that it's the DWP who asked me to make an application for PIP after they asked me to complete the 2nd WCA form in 2020. Otherwise i would've applied in 2019 with the 1st WCA form but at that time I didn't know i could, nobody advised me, and secondly I was in a bad state with my conditions.

poppy12345

tifo said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

If you still meet the criteria for LCWRA then your main focus needs to be on which descriptor(s) and why. 

I did this with my mandatory request statement and evidence, I went through each descriptor and how I met it. I also quoted legislation including guidance for the assessor for the assessment. I showed how they didn't follow the guidance.

You only need to meet one of the LCWRA descriptors. You can see them here. https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/universal-credit-uc/uc-faq/limited-capability-for-work-related-activity

tifo

poppy12345 said:

I did this with my mandatory request statement and evidence, I went through each descriptor and how I met it. I also quoted legislation including guidance for the assessor for the assessment. I showed how they didn't follow the guidance.

You only need to meet one of the LCWRA descriptors. You can see them here. https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/universal-credit-uc/uc-faq/limited-capability-for-work-related-activity

I mean I listed which descriptors I met.

I meet descriptor 1 'Mobilising unaided by another person' for 50 metres. This also applies to my PIP claim for 20 metres. For my PIP report assessor said that I can walk for 20 minutes to shop so this is more than 200 metres. However, that's on the minority of days, on the majority of days I cannot walk 20 metres without needing to stop with the pain and exhaustion, in fact with the chronic gout (feet and knees) I can hardly walk 2 metres on a bad day. I have it for about 8 months of the year on/off. I'm on medication for it. For the WCA claim the DWP said I can use aids to walk but these don't get rid of the pain and exhaustion and would not be much use mobilising when I can't see properly to work.

I think I meet descriptor 13 in the description 'Coping with social engagement' but the heading also says 'due to cognitive or mental disorder'. I don't know what 'mental disorder' means.

I've also got my eye conditions but I don't know which of the descriptors meet this, it means I cannot work because of the pain and discomfort, constant high eye pressure (in the 40s) and migraine headaches. Watery deflating eye.

I'd be taking most of the year off 'sick'. I couldn't look for a job because i'd have no reasonable prospect of keeping it after a short while.

Most of the descriptors are for 'due to cognitive or mental disorder' but my conditions are physical and affect my ability to work. I do get anxious and distressed with people because of the way my eye looks and conditions show. I shy away from meeting people so I don't have to constantly explain what happened.

I meet more of the PIP descriptors.

poppy12345

Do be aware that the mobilising descriptor considers your ability to use a self propel wheelchair.

Spoonie_Turtle

poppy12345 said:

Do be aware that the mobilising descriptor considers your ability to use a self propel wheelchair.

This is very important.

tifo said:

poppy12345 said:

I did this with my mandatory request statement and evidence, I went through each descriptor and how I met it. I also quoted legislation including guidance for the assessor for the assessment. I showed how they didn't follow the guidance.

You only need to meet one of the LCWRA descriptors. You can see them here. https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/universal-credit-uc/uc-faq/limited-capability-for-work-related-activity

I mean I listed which descriptors I met.

I meet descriptor 1 'Mobilising unaided by another person' for 50 metres. This also applies to my PIP claim for 20 metres. For my PIP report assessor said that I can walk for 20 minutes to shop so this is more than 200 metres. However, that's on the minority of days, on the majority of days I cannot walk 20 metres without needing to stop with the pain and exhaustion, in fact with the chronic gout (feet and knees) I can hardly walk 2 metres on a bad day. I have it for about 8 months of the year on/off. I'm on medication for it. For the WCA claim the DWP said I can use aids to walk but these don't get rid of the pain and exhaustion and would not be much use mobilising when I can't see properly to work.

I think I meet descriptor 13 in the description 'Coping with social engagement' but the heading also says 'due to cognitive or mental disorder'. I don't know what 'mental disorder' means.

I've also got my eye conditions but I don't know which of the descriptors meet this, it means I cannot work because of the pain and discomfort, constant high eye pressure (in the 40s) and migraine headaches. Watery deflating eye.

I'd be taking most of the year off 'sick'. I couldn't look for a job because i'd have no reasonable prospect of keeping it after a short while.

Most of the descriptors are for 'due to cognitive or mental disorder' but my conditions are physical and affect my ability to work. I do get anxious and distressed with people because of the way my eye looks and conditions show. I shy away from meeting people so I don't have to constantly explain what happened.

I meet more of the PIP descriptors.

In that case, this link might be of use, it deals with each activity separately:
https://wcainfo.net/

I'd suggest going through each one to see which, if any, apply.

Is it one or both eyes?

Also have a look at the 'substantial risk' for LCW and LCWRA (under 'Issues').  If being forced to travel places - to the Jobcentre, to work - and to concentrate on visual work (including work-related activity such as courses) would cause deterioration or exacerbate symptoms, e.g. causing more migraines, tell them.

But given that you're not quite sure, if you can find anyone experienced to help you it would probably be very beneficial.

To be very clear though, the WCA is about assessing your ability to do any form of work, not whether you can do the kind of job you used to do.  

[Substantially edited for additions, apologies for any confusion.]