Unfair parking fine

Ligster

Thanks for the advice. I haven’t still got the ticket as it was over a month ago and I just assumed it was paid and finished. I was very careful to enter the reg in the machine and my sons and husband were with me at the time. If it had been an error with the entry it would have got me at 5.30 the night before. It must be because I popped out and came back in again. 

fisherjim

Ligster said:

Thanks for the advice. I haven’t still got the ticket as it was over a month ago and I just assumed it was paid and finished. I was very careful to enter the reg in the machine and my sons and husband were with me at the time. If it had been an error with the entry it would have got me at 5.30 the night before. It must be because I popped out and came back in again. 

I have already explained the most likely reason for this is due to them not marrying up the anpr  sessions Session 1 enter then  leave session stopped timed and deemed paid for. Session 2 enter then leave session stopped timed with no payment made.

The anpr captures have no mechanism to over lap sessions anpr is not fit for purpose and that is the reason the government ban its use in authority controlled car parks.

The GSV captures for that site are not clear enough to read the signage, but you cannot have a no return T&C with a hotel on site that would be ridiculous.

Coupon-mad

Yep, the failures and automated presumptions of ANPR has caused this unfair charge.  If it had been a manned car park, the ticketer person would have seen that your parking session was paid for and no PCN would be generated.

With ANPR, it's an automated process but the trade body (and indeed the law - DPA 2018 and the GDPR) requires that human checks are made. Data cannot be used (i.e. DVLA data can't be lawfully obtained) based on automated images alone.

A manual check by the PPC's back office staff must be made BEFORE getting DVLA data and a human would see that the full time was more than paid for, and in the absence of any 'no return within' clause, there was no contractual breach.  No 'reasonable cause' to get DVLA data at all.

Ligster

So even in light of thinking I have said the wrong thing on the appeal, do you think it is worth fighting? Everything about it us telling me it is wrong and unfair but I think they will have a get out and make me pay! 

Coupon-mad

Only a Judge can say you must pay and if you read any other threads on this forum (and you should be doing that - read at least 20 or preferably more) you will see that fighting unfair PCNs is what we do.

Not a single person here will tell you to pay this, unless they are a PPC employee.  There is no CCJ nor high costs risk - as long as you get stuck in, read threads, learn what to do when and follow our advice - and your case is one that should win.

fisherjim

Ligster said:

So even in light of thinking I have said the wrong thing on the appeal, do you think it is worth fighting? Everything about it us telling me it is wrong and unfair but I think they will have a get out and make me pay! 

Of course it's worth fighting, and why assume they have a get out, why don't you phone the hotel and ask them about the terms and conditions of parking, they advertise it on their website and should be in a position to inform their guests as a matter of courtesy.

As we have said the most probable explanation is an anpr problem and this to me says it all:

Contravention reason:
101 - parked without payment of the parking tariff for the vehicle registration mark of the vehicle on site

Ligster

One of the first things I did was to call Premier Inn Darlington to ask about the parking T’s & C’s. They were quick to point out that the car park has nothing to do with them even though they recommend it to their customers due to the location ( I think they must get a few calls regarding the car park!!!). As you can enter the Premier Inn from inside the car park, I would assume this is used all of the time by their customers. If you are not permitted to leave the site once you have paid for 24hrs parking, I would have thought the hotel might at least mention this as lots of people staying at the hotel might nip out somewhere in the car during their stay! It feels very underhand! 

Ligster

This is the screenshot regarding the hotel parking from the website. We of course used the recommended first option which the hotel directs you to for the 24hr pay and display parking:

fisherjim

Contravention reason:
101 - parked without payment of the parking tariff for the vehicle registration mark of the vehicle on site

The contravention is therefore for not paying, not for returning within a certain time, asking for the anpr records for your VRN at the times you entered and left would confirm you paid for the correct duration if it went to court.

Ligster

Thanks. I think that is a really good idea. Can I just write to excel parking and request this information?