Thinking for car change

DrEskimo

iwb100 said:

Herzlos said:

Ibrahim5 said:

Never had any engine problems. Never suffered any engine degradation. No reason why a 1.25 Fiesta should have any engine issues. EVERY ev has a gradually deteriorating battery. ALWAYS going to cost a fortune to fix.

I don't suppose you can prove any of that?

I've never had an ICE car that didn't need some work eventually; new belts, chains, plugs, etc. I also haven't actually seen any reports of EV batteries degrading close to as badly as feared. 

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you don't have any 1st or 2nd hand experience with EVs? 

This is correct that the comparison suggesting ice cars never have problems is hilariously flawed. 

However he does make a good point and something even EV dealers have said. The value of EVs bought today in 7 or 8 years is highly dubious depending on battery tech improvements in the meantime and battery degradation over that time. It’s not a myth. It’s a bit unknown. 

I think the whole 'tech is moving so fast' is over blown. There have been articles about 'BREAKTHROUGH BATTERY TECHNOLOGY" for over a decade now. Nothing has materialised into a prototype, let alone a mass manufactured car you can buy soon.

Tesla are arguably the leaders in battery and EV tech, and on their massive 'Battery Day' event they only announced some 30-50% improvements in ranges and charging times, and reductions in costs. These won't be available in their cars for another 3-yrs yet.

We know exactly what the horizon is for battery tech and the idea that lease is better is another misnomer. It depends entirely on what the lease cost is. Case in point, people told me the same things 3-yrs ago. Leases were around £7k over 3yrs. Instead I bought used and the car is worth just £500-£1000 less than I paid for it. So I saved £6,000-£6,500 by not leasing, and get to keep the car for as long as I want.

Another example is I found my Mother-in-law a 2016 battery owned Gen1 Zoe (22kWh). It's now over 5-yrs old and has no warranty on the battery, and the new Zoe has nearly triple the range. According to people on here it should be worthless, but nope, still worth MORE than what she paid for it over 3-yrs ago.

The facts simply don't back up these speculations.

CKhalvashi

Ibrahim5 said:

It's like a game of 'pass the parcel'. Who's got the car when the battery is dead. With normal depreciation you might not  spend much so the risk might be worth it. In the current environment you risk spending £10K and then either lose your £10K or spend a lot on a new battery. A lot of people say you shouldn't spend more on a repair than a car is worth. Like the guy who has spent £20K on an old motorhome to find the engine is rubbish and the chassis corroded. Do you throw more money at it or accept the loss?

But are the savings more than the cost of a new battery?

With a sub-£5k car, I'd hazard a guess from experience with both EVs and non-EVs that after about 3 years the answer will be yes.

There comes a time when it's cheaper to throw and replace any car than replace parts, that's with anything and not just an EV. I don't hear of too many problems with 10 year old EVs in general, provided they've been maintained.

Looking at the 2 EV's on Autotrader below £5k (a silver one and a black one, both happen to be Leafs), there's nothing that would suggest either wouldn't last 4-5 years and 25-30k miles more at a bare minimum, naturally subject to driving them to check for battery condition issues before purchase and regular maintenance.

Even then, the batteries have further applications, including as home storage systems.

Ibrahim5

The 2 Nissan Leafs are very similar. One says it has a range of 25 to 30 miles. Wouldn't even get Motorguy to the nearest supermarket.  Obviously I know nothing about EVs but I thought they were normally a bit better than that? Anyway £5k spent. What happens next? Well the battery can only get worse. So do you pay another £5k for a new battery? Do you scrap it? I would much rather spend £2k on a petrol Fiesta of a similar age. At least it would function as a car 

Ergates

Ibrahim5 said:

The 2 Nissan Leafs are very similar. One says it has a range of 25 to 30 miles. Wouldn't even get Motorguy to the nearest supermarket.  Obviously I know nothing about EVs but I thought they were normally a bit better than that? Anyway £5k spent. What happens next? Well the battery can only get worse. So do you pay another £5k for a new battery? Do you scrap it? I would much rather spend £2k on a petrol Fiesta of a similar age. At least it would function as a car 

Very similar, apart for the 20,000 mile difference.

Ibrahim5

Oh sorry I am used to cars that can do half a million miles. I guess 20k on an EV does serious battery damage.

Ergates

Ibrahim5 said:

Oh sorry I am used to cars that can do half a million miles. I guess 20k on an EV does serious battery damage.

So you'd be happy if you bought a second hand car and the millage was 20k miles higher than stated then.    Good to know.

Herzlos

Ibrahim5 said:

Oh sorry I am used to cars that can do half a million miles. I guess 20k on an EV does serious battery damage.

Do many ford Fiestas get 500,00 miles from the original engine?

Sure, 30 miles is kind of disappointing from an EV, but it's also 11 years old with 112k on the clock.

30 miles would do plenty of people for town driving or 2nd car, though. 

Ibrahim5

30 miles and decreasing all the time. Well worth the £5k then. And then pay for a new battery? Can't wait to have one of these super duper money saving machines.

Herzlos

Ibrahim5 said:

30 miles and decreasing all the time. Well worth the £5k then. And then pay for a new battery? Can't wait to have one of these super duper money saving machines.

Not by as much as you'd think. We don't know if this is typical of the car given the higher than average mileage, and the car only started with about 60 miles anyway. 

One of my staff has a 2014 (I think) Leaf that still does 80 miles and the newer ones will do 200ish.

Like I said, even 20 miles range is enough for most people and could save them a lot of money. I wouldn't want one with less than 10 miles range, though.

Ergates

Herzlos said:

Ibrahim5 said:

Oh sorry I am used to cars that can do half a million miles. I guess 20k on an EV does serious battery damage.

Do many ford Fiestas get 500,00 miles from the original engine?

Sure, 30 miles is kind of disappointing from an EV, but it's also 11 years old with 112k on the clock.

30 miles would do plenty of people for town driving or 2nd car, though. 

Very few ICE cars would still be in a usable state after 500,000 miles.