The neighbour of my immediate neighbour threatening to break my fence if I try to install it.

Abid_shah

Hi All, I bought an end terrace house in 2014. The house has a side way shared for access with the houses through rear of the gardens.

My deed says that the boundary of my property in the title includes the rear upto the wall subject to Right of way

register contains any charges and other matters that affect the land. Exact wording in quotes: 

1

“The part of the passageway at the back included in the title is subject

to rights of way”

The map with is clear that all the land is included in my title.

The back and side way was not accessible until 2020. When I decided to pay for it and clean the back and side way.

now I want to put a fence at the border of my garden at the side and towards the rear up to the rear fence of my neighbour across the side way. My neighbour agrees with me and has no issues. But his neighbour ( who has not adjoining terrace property to mine is arguing that I must leave more land at the rear to allow his vehicle access. My understanding is that he doesn’t have the right of way over my land and only my adjoining properties have the right of way at the rear of my garden. Is this correct?

if yes then what should I do as that neighbour is threatening me that if I try to install the fence up to the point where theirs  is then he will break my fence.

should I contact the police? I tried to explain politely to my neighbour that he is not my adjoining neighbour so he doesn’t have right of way over my land. Only my adjoining properties have the right of way and I am leaving as much space as the neighbour threatening me has left at the rear.

His plan is to build a car repair garage at the back of his garden and his idea is that I must leave more space that theirs at my rear garden to allow him reverse car into the rear of his garden and repair it there.
which as far as I know is not legal. He regularly repair cars for customers on the street and at his driveway which again I believe is illegal.

My questions are:

1) legally does only adjoining properties have right of way at the rear of my garden?

2) Am I required to leave more space at the rear for my non Terrence adjoining neighbour to allow him reverse the car into the rear of his garden. This is a very tight space and I don’t believe it is intended for vehicles.

3) the space I am leaving the at rear is a bit more than the threatening neighbour’s rear space but he wants even more.

4) what are my options?

Apologies for the long message. If anyone can help that will be much appreciated.

I included two pictures on with the title wording and the other with the map. The neighbour has his fence at the solid line before the red line at the rear and I want to do the same.
On the map the yellow painted house neighbour is threatening me.

the red border house is mine. 
Many thanks in advance

canaldumidi

Abid_shah said:

...

My deed says that the boundary of my property in the title includes the rear upto the wall subject to Right of way

register contains any charges and other matters that affect the land. Exact wording in quotes: 

1

“The part of the passageway at the back included in the title is subject

to rights of way”

The map with is clear that all the land is included in my title.

Impossible to answer without details of the ROW. It could be a ROW just for your neighbour, and/or his neighbour, and/or anyone living within the parish, and/or...... who knows?

Is there a reference in the Title (B or C register) to another document which, for example, created the ROW? If so, you'll need to get and read that.

The other thing to do is buy the Title for the property claiming to have a ROW. See if that property does have a ROW mentioned in the Title.

TripleH

What do your deeds say exact wording regarding right of way? Does it mention vehicular?

It would also be worth getting a copy of this 'troublesome neighbour's' deeds to see what exactly they say before taking further action.

They should be available from the land registry website for about £3 each.

At the end of the day, it's what the deeds say, not what any party wants the situation to be.

Better to spend a few pounds now to check and save thousands in the future.

YBR

Somewhere in the deed should be more detail about the right of way, but I would speculate that as it's a terrace of 6 houses, that right of way includes more than your immediate neighbour.
It might say whether its a pedestrian right-of-way only.

It could be worth downloading copies of your neighbours' deeds to see what they indicate about the right-of-way.

Abid_shah

I did download his deed and it says

).

 2      The land has the benefit of way over the passageway at the rear leading

        into Rosebery Avenue.

The above he can do without accessing my land as he House is not adjoining my property.
correct?
thanks
Abid

Abid_shah

My deed only say

These are exact wording no other mention

1

The part of the passageway at the back included in the title is subject

to rights of way.

tacpot12

if you have legal expense insurance as part of your home insurance, you can get advice about what the text of the right of way means, and they might write the neighbour a letter confirming their advice. If you show a copy to the police, they might take action for criminal damage if the neighbour damages your fence when they have been told that they have no right of way. 

canaldumidi

Abid_shah said:

I did download his deed and it says

).

 2      The land has the benefit of way over the passageway at the rear leading

        into Rosebery Avenue.

The above he can do without accessing my land as he House is not adjoining my property.
correct?
thanks
Abid

You will need to be clearer than that. Please quote the words exactly! "The land has the benefit of way over the..." is clearly not an accurate quote.

You will also need to tell us where in the deeds that is from.

And what else might be in the deeds elsewhere. eg I asked earlier: "Is there a reference in the Title (B or C register) to another document which, for example, created the ROW? If so, you'll need to get and read that."

The above he can do without accessing my land as he House is not adjoining my property.

No idea what you mean - please explain. You said you own the passageway, therefore how can he access Rosebery (sic) Avenue via the passageway without accessing your land.....?

The one positive suggestion I can make is that I believe (I may be wrong) a 'passageway' suggests pedestrian access, not vehicular. But happy to be correctd!

Abid_shah

Thanks I will check home insurances document.
the main question is can the neighbour ask me to leave wider rear space than he left himself at the rear of his garden? 

As his garden has a right of way access for the house next to him as well.

i don’t believe he can ask me to leave a wider space than his and my next door neighbour across the passageway. If you look at the attached map I coloured his house yellow and mine has red borders.
thanks

Bendy_House

Evidence evidence evidence, Abid. This neighbour has threatened to break a fence you install? Yes, that is a police matter. However, if you cannot prove that they said this, there's very little they can do. Mind you, after informing the police of this threat, if it does then happen, then you have a slightly better case.

With any future conversation, make sure it's recorded and/or witnessed.

Check the LR and deeds as suggested above, and give no quarter to these guys. You may wish to set up CCTV cameras to cover that area - try and keep it to within your land - and report anything that's amiss. Such folk will just keep taking advantage.

(And, yes, when you check their deeds, see if it prohibits commercial activity from home.)

TripleH

@Abid_shah it is the deeds that will give a definition of access.

In my mind, access could be anything from 1 person on foot only to room for a road train to get round the back, which is a very broad scope. 

Whilst I 'think' this neighbour's neighbour sounds like they are in the wrong, the deed could prove otherwise.

Bendy_House's point about whether commercial access is prohibited is a key one as it could greatly help your arguement