The neighbour of my immediate neighbour threatening to break my fence if I try to install it.

Abid_shah

Getting_greyer said:

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Think we just found out who lives in the yellow house.

Exactly we found him:) 

bouicca21

Gosh this thread is so frustrating.  As others keep asking what is the prescise wording for the right of way?  It will start off with something like ‘the right to pass and repass …’ and the specify whether it is for pedestrians, vehicles or both.

Slinky

So as I'm understanding this, the neighbour wants to use your land to help him do a 3 point turn to get into and out of his garden?

Abbafan1972

I am finding this thread so confusing - it would be helpful if the OP could provide photos.

Ath_Wat

Abid_shah said:

74jax said:

Is he driving over the ROW 'and' part of your garden as the ROW isn't big enough for him to do what he wants?

I'd he claiming part of your garden is needed for his vehicles? As well as the ROW? 

He can drive through the side way with a bit of slow driving and care. No issues with the side border of my garden. Towards the end if he try to get into the rear of his garden then the space is tight both behind his garden and my immediate Neighbour’s garden due to their fences. 

So he is arguing that I reduce the length of my garden towards the rear so he can drive at the rear of my garden and then reverse into his own.

For example if he reduces the length of his own garden and my immediate neighbour’s garden to make the space for his car at the rear then he can drive to his rear without using the rear of my garden.

But he is not doing that and instead asking me to reduce the length of my garden to facilitate his needs. I believe he doesn’t have the ROW over the rear of my garden at all because ROW is for adjoining properties and his property is not adjoining to mine.

And for my adjoining properties, I am leaving ROW according to my deed plan.

Right, well as you won't share any of the wording, and you believe he has no ROW, you don't have any questions.  If he has no ROW it doesn't matter what he says and everything else is irrelevant.  Do what you like.  But stop going on about what he has done with his garden or whether he wants to fix cars, none of that matters.  If he has no kind of  ROW over your property he cannot walk on it, drive on it, or hop across it, and he can't object to you building fences wherever you like on your own property, even if they did cut off ROW for others.  Case closed.

Abid_shah

Slinky said:

So as I'm understanding this, the neighbour wants to use your land to help him do a 3 point turn to get into and out of his garden?

Yes that’s what he wants, he want me to reduce the length of my garden to enable him a three point turn. And he is not requesting it. He is fighting and threatening. I bought the house in 2014 and until 2020 this passageway had so much mess bushes and trees that cars can pass only a tiny way was accessible for garden bins. I paid for it to clear it. Now I am planning to install a new fence and he is saying I have to leave a wider space than him and the immediate neighbour to enable him a three point turn at the rear of my garden.

Abid_shah

Ath_Wat said:

Abid_shah said:

74jax said:

Is he driving over the ROW 'and' part of your garden as the ROW isn't big enough for him to do what he wants?

I'd he claiming part of your garden is needed for his vehicles? As well as the ROW? 

He can drive through the side way with a bit of slow driving and care. No issues with the side border of my garden. Towards the end if he try to get into the rear of his garden then the space is tight both behind his garden and my immediate Neighbour’s garden due to their fences. 

So he is arguing that I reduce the length of my garden towards the rear so he can drive at the rear of my garden and then reverse into his own.

For example if he reduces the length of his own garden and my immediate neighbour’s garden to make the space for his car at the rear then he can drive to his rear without using the rear of my garden.

But he is not doing that and instead asking me to reduce the length of my garden to facilitate his needs. I believe he doesn’t have the ROW over the rear of my garden at all because ROW is for adjoining properties and his property is not adjoining to mine.

And for my adjoining properties, I am leaving ROW according to my deed plan.

Right, well as you won't share any of the wording, and you believe he has no ROW, you don't have any questions.  If he has no ROW it doesn't matter what he says and everything else is irrelevant.  Do what you like.  But stop going on about what he has done with his garden or whether he wants to fix cars, none of that matters.  If he has no kind of  ROW over your property he cannot walk on it, drive on it, or hop across it, and he can't object to you building fences wherever you like on your own property, even if they did cut off ROW for others.  Case closed.

This is my register copy Shared it previously as well. This is the only way in section C where it says right of ways at the rear of my garden but as I understand it private Right of Ways has to be in adjoining properties. He is not in my block of terraced houses.

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RAS

Abid

You need to be specific. 

Otherwise you cause confusion. Which is why people are having to guess what the situation is.

Abid_shah said: Now I am planning to install a new fence and he is saying I have to leave a wider space than him and the immediate neighbour to enable him a three point turn at the rear of my garden.

What does that mean?

a)That if you install the fence he is going to find it difficult to do a 3 point turn between your fence and the other wall at the end of your land? And doesn't want to scratch his car?

b)That the only way he can do a 3 point turn is to drive over part of your garden, that will be enclosed when you put the fence up?

Which is it?

And who is the immediate neighbour, the one the other side of him, or the other side of you? And what have they go to do with it?

And finally, please quote the precise words in your deeds and his.

EDIT: Page 2 would be helpful, but pleased do mask your address.

It may be that he only has the right to pass over the passage way on foot. But unless you provide the specific wording, no-one can help you.

doodling

Hi,

Does the title register refer to any other documents?

Usually, if the property significantly predates registration then copies of original conveyances or other similar documents are held at the registry - I believe that these need to be applied for in writing on a separate form with a (I think) £8 fee.

If the entry for your property doesn't note the existence of such documents then do any if your neighbour's titles mention such documents?

Without the original documents setting out the purpose (i.e. on foot or with vehicles) (and hopefully an indication of width) of the right of way then it is very difficult to make a useful comment.

You might be able to make some assumptions (but they are only assumptions)  from the percieved original purpose of the way. If, for example, the right of way was originally intended to allow deliveries of coal, or the collection of refuse then there might be a vehicular right of way. If the right of way was to allow people to bring their bins to the front of the house for collection then the right of way might be pedestrian only, or pedestrian with a barrow.

Until you know the width of the right of way then it is very difficult to comment  whether building a fence in a particular position will obstruct it.

If no documents have survived then it will be difficult to confirm the width of the way but I suspect that some will remain somewhere (are any of the houses in the row unregistered - their deeds would probably help?)..

If you do build the fence in the wrong place then someone who has right of way has the right to remove it.

Have you checked with the council maps that it is not a public right of way? Some back of terrace routes have gained that status - if it is public then that will identify the minimum rights of other house owners but be aware that they may have additional ones.

Finally, how long has this person or their predecessor been using the way (or your land)? - after 20 years of use they may gain the right to use it, even if they didnt have that right originally.

Mojisola

What do the neighbour's deeds say about his right of way over your land?
Sometimes the detail is in the deeds of the property with the right, rather than the owner of the land.