PCM fine, I parked on a double yellow line in my carpark for five mins

parkingissues123

Hi, 

I own a flat, and the parking spot that comes with it. The parking is operated by PCM and I have a permit (visible in my car). 

I stupidly (and am SO frustrated with myself!) parked on a double yellow for five mins as I ran in to my flat to grab something, left hazards on, ran in and out. I did this because my spot is round the corner and a tight squeeze and I was in a rush. 

I have been charged £60, which will increase to £100 after 28 days, which will increase it £170 apparently. They have pics of the car on the double yellow, my permit and my empty spot. 
I guess my question is, do I just pay? I am in the wrong and parked on the double yellow BUT I own a spot, the double yellow is not blocking any exit or anything like that, and it was for five mins. Or can I challenge it? If so, would love any advice. Also I thought they could no longer charge £60, but rather £50? 

Thanks all  

Half_way

You were leaving something in the vehicle, namely a permit.
Loading and unloading including passengers is permitted on double yellow lines unless there are side dashes.

Out of interest, if your own the space and flat then why do you need a permit to use it?
The space is yours. it is not someone else's to sublet to a parissitic parking company for upto £100 a day, they can stick their permit up their rse .
And then in the future you won't need to go to the effort of stopping to get something you don't need

Thrugelmir

Raises the question of why bothering double yellow lines at all if people can freely park on them. 

Coupon-mad

Thrugelmir said:

Raises the question of why bothering double yellow lines at all if people can freely park on them. 

People can't 'freely' park on DYL, but as I suspect you know, loading/unloading is an exempt activity and this has been tested at appeal re private land (Jopson v Home Guard).

parkingissues123

Hi all, thank you for your advice. Can I get some feedback on the letter I will write to PCN to argue this? 

I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice.

On [x] my vehicle [x] was issued with a Penalty Charge Notice for the reason of [x].

In accordance with the Traffic Management Act 2004, my challenge is on the basis that the contravention did not occur, as I was not parked in a restricted area. Loading/unloading is an exempt activity and this has been tested at appeal re private land (Jopson v Home Guard [2016]).

As an owner of a parking space on the property, I have a right-of-way to enable me to access the property, and the right to stop for a few moments or minutes to put down passengers or unload awkward items is a necessary incident of this easement. This position is analogous to the right to unload which was the subject of Bulstrode v Lambert [1953] 2 All ER 728.

I argue that I was not parked, my hazard lights were on and I returned to the car shortly after leaving it. The Shorter Oxford Dictionary has the following definition of parking: “To leave a vehicle in a carpark or other reserved space” and “To leave in a suitable place until required.” The concept of parking, as opposed to stopping, is that of leaving a car for some duration of time beyond that needed for getting in or out of it, loading or unloading it, and perhaps coping with some vicissitude of short duration, such as changing a wheel in the event of a puncture. Merely to stop a vehicle cannot be to park it; otherwise traffic jams would consist of lines of parked cars. Delivery vans, whether for post, newspapers, groceries, or anything else, would not be accommodated on an interpretation which included vehicles stopping for a few moment for these purposes. 

Loading and unloading including passengers is permitted on double yellow lines unless there are side dashes, which there are not in this case. 

For this reason, I look forward to receiving notification that the Penalty Charge Notice has been cancelled within 28 days.

Yours faithfully,

Also in response to Half_way, you're totally right, but it is the management company of the block who have commissioned this parking company. The management company is rubbish, but it is proving too hard to fire them, as unfortunately most people living here are renting not owning, and don't care about the long term future of the area. So it isn't something i can deal with right now   

Coupon-mad

It's not a penalty charge and the TMA is irrelevant on private land.  Use the forum template appeal (see NEWBIES FAQS thread) and just replace the sentence about pay and display, with this bit:

Loading/unloading is an exempt activity and this has been tested at appeal re private land (Jopson v Home Guard [2016]).

As an owner of a parking space on the property, I have a right-of-way to enable me to access the property, and the right to stop for a few moments or minutes to put down passengers or unload awkward items is a necessary incident of this easement. This position is analogous to the right to unload which was the subject of Bulstrode v Lambert [1953] 2 All ER 728.

I argue that I was not parked, my hazard lights were on and I returned to the car shortly after leaving it. The Shorter Oxford Dictionary has the following definition of parking: “To leave a vehicle in a carpark or other reserved space” and “To leave in a suitable place until required.” The concept of parking, as opposed to stopping, is that of leaving a car for some duration of time beyond that needed for getting in or out of it, loading or unloading it, and perhaps coping with some vicissitude of short duration, such as changing a wheel in the event of a puncture. Merely to stop a vehicle cannot be to park it; otherwise traffic jams would consist of lines of parked cars. Delivery vans, whether for post, newspapers, groceries, or anything else, would not be accommodated on an interpretation which included vehicles stopping for a few moment for these purposes. 

Loading and unloading including passengers is permitted on double yellow lines unless there are side dashes, which there are not in this case. 

parkingissues123

Hi @Coupon-mad, sorry I can't find a specific template, do you have a link? I just see lots of different ones. Sorry!

KeithP

parkingissues123 said:

Hi @Coupon-mad, sorry I can't find a specific template, do you have a link? I just see lots of different ones. Sorry!

The template appeal is in the opening post of the NEWBIES thread.
It's in blue text. You can't miss it.

Le_Kirk

parkingissues123 said:

Hi @Coupon-mad, sorry I can't find a specific template, do you have a link? I just see lots of different ones. Sorry!

Did you find the NEWBIE sticky?  It is one of the announcements on the first page of the forum - just follow @Coupon-mad's breadcrumb trail in her signature.  The first post of the sticky has a section of text written in blue and that is the standard appeal.

parkingissues123

@Le_Kirk
it is "**NEWBIES!! PRIVATE PARKING TICKET? OLD OR NEW? **READ THESE FAQS FIRST!** Thankyou!" thread right? 

parkingissues123

I think it is this: 


Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.


] @Coupon-mad advised to " replace the sentence about pay and display, with this bit:

Loading/unloading is an exempt activity and this has been tested at appeal re private land (Jopson v Home Guard [2016]).

As an owner of a parking space on the property, I have a right-of-way to enable me to access the property, and the right to stop for a few moments or minutes to put down passengers or unload awkward items is a necessary incident of this easement. This position is analogous to the right to unload which was the subject of Bulstrode v Lambert [1953] 2 All ER 728.

I argue that I was not parked, my hazard lights were on and I returned to the car shortly after leaving it. The Shorter Oxford Dictionary has the following definition of parking: “To leave a vehicle in a carpark or other reserved space” and “To leave in a suitable place until required.” The concept of parking, as opposed to stopping, is that of leaving a car for some duration of time beyond that needed for getting in or out of it, loading or unloading it, and perhaps coping with some vicissitude of short duration, such as changing a wheel in the event of a puncture. Merely to stop a vehicle cannot be to park it; otherwise traffic jams would consist of lines of parked cars. Delivery vans, whether for post, newspapers, groceries, or anything else, would not be accommodated on an interpretation which included vehicles stopping for a few moment for these purposes. 

Loading and unloading including passengers is permitted on double yellow lines unless there are side dashes, which there are not in this case. "

But I'm not sure where the pay and display bit is? Thank you all for your kindness and patience with helping me