Replacement boiler - financial options and general advice?

plumb1_2

Black/white thing is a pipe stat, ballpark £2k to replace, 2 man job because of the roof work.

BUFF

Bendy_House said:

Shoxt3r said:

Ah that's good to know that at least once this is all done we'll be saving significant amounts of money on our energy bills!

I suspect that this will be quite an involved job because the flue goes through the roof - but maybe they can reuse the flue that's already there? If we need to have that replaced as well then we'll need some new roof tiles put in (we just paid a roofer about a month ago to repair a broken tile due to poor fitting by the original installers which cost £200.00 to fix so hopefully that's not the case!).

Unfortunately, unless the pipework gets completely re-routed to send the flue out the front or back, there is no other way to have the flue as it's a terraced house - I would presume anyway! We also have limited space to put the boiler anywhere else - I get the feeling that placing the boiler in a utility room or the like is the ideal solution these days but for some reason the original owner went with the roof - one guess is cost as it's located next to the water tank that way?

Thanks for the tip about whether we could go with a "sealed/unvented" system. Is there a particular reason/benefit for having a F&E tank?

Thanks for the quote tips as well - will certainly be lining up a few companies to come and quote, as well as Boxt - they came up in a search and I wondered who they were.

Yes the house is mortgaged - we can cover the current repayments but I'd be reluctant to increase the mortgage by much as we've only just had it re-assessed and reduced which has been helpful. But, if it avoids having to go down a finance route then perhaps this is the better option anyway. As you say, £2,000 is unlikely to add very much at all to the repayments.

Below are some pictures to give some better context to our setup. Really not sure what the last picture shows - presumably an old setup which was hastily "plugged up"? I'm also a bit clueless as to what the "British Gas" and black/white dial sitting above the boiler is doing?

Wow! That's some setup!

Ok, so you are already in the loft space? Cool - that's nicely out of the way. No, they cannot 'reuse' the old flue, but I'd hope that having that hole already in the roof would make the job a lot easier - they'd likely just need a new flashing.

'Significant' savings with the new boiler? Hmm, perhaps 10% - hopefully.

The F&E tank was the traditional method of these systems, and has  - I guess - the benefit of simplicity, along with the whole system being at a low pressure. Having it 'sealed' will be at a greater pressure, but that shouldn't be an issue. See the wee tank sitting on top of that hellish construction? That's the F&E tank, and it would be great to get shot of that.

No idea what that black/white control is - any chance of a closer shot? I thought it was a frost 'stat, but that's the square white thing beside it - it'll be cold up in the loft, so that will fire up the boiler if there's any risk of frost.

I'd get an extra layer of insulation on that hot tank too, to cut down heat loses up there.

No idea what that old flexi duct was. Where does that wall go?!

That is a very amateur-looking installation... :-(

I would like to think that with decent controls & flow/return temps properly set up to condense most of the time 10% saving would be a minimum.
They'll have to make provision for condensate drainage.

Certainly the pipe insulation looks a bit amateurish.

Bendy_House

plumb1_2 said:

Black/white thing is a pipe stat, ballpark £2k to replace, 2 man job because of the roof work.

Ah, so it's actually clipped to that pipe?! I could see what looked like a mounting strap, but it appeared unfastened. What purpose would that have - pump over-run?

Bendy_House

plumb1_2 said:

Black/white thing is a pipe stat, ballpark £2k to replace, 2 man job because of the roof work.

That is one expensive pipe stat.

Shoxt3r

Ebe_Scrooge said:

Shoxt3r said:

Yeah that's the main aim really, spread the cost as much as possible.

I'm unsure if local businesses would offer this type of thing - lots of them are one-man band companies

What you need to remember is that anyone who offers you a finance option is supposed to be FCA registered.  The big companies like BG are registered, it's highly unlikely that your local family-run plumbing firm will be (though as has already been pointed out, that's the sort of people your really want to be doing the job).

Additionally, bear in mind that there's no such thing as free credit - someone has to pay for it somewhere along the line.  This may be made obvious (as in your car insurance, where it plainly states it costs more to pay monthly than it does if you pay in one annual premium).  If you see an offer of "interest-free" credit, I'd be willing to bet the cost of the job is inflated to cover the finance costs - no credit is truly interest-free.

A 0% purchase credit card might be an option - if you are eligible for one, and if your installer will accept credit cards (some large firms will, most "one-man-bands" won't).

Shoxt3r said:

I've mainly been looking into heating engineers - would this be covered under plumbing as well then? Sorry for being naive.

Strictly speaking, a plumber can do all the "watery" and "pipe-y" stuff, but won't do heating.  That's where a heating engineer is needed - they know boilers, and importantly are trained and licenced to deal with gas (do check that they're registered with the GSR www.gassaferegister.co.uk).  You will often find "plumbers" that are actually also GSR qualified, so they can do heating as well.

Yes, that makes sense - I think weighing up the options I'd rather go with a local firm anyway as like you say we're more likely to get a decent price. Thanks for the tips about plumbers/heating engineers - we've sourced a few companies locally who are on the Gas Safe Register (I thought Corgi registration still existed as a look-up but it seems to have long-been replaced with Gas Safe Register).

another_casualty said:

It's doubtful you'd get a grant OP 
If you are on universal credit ..and a home moaner then you would get a grant .
However, I'm not sure what companies offer this . Despite being with edf, I got the grant through eon . Cut off times also for applying etc . 

May be of help to others here..

Once you get your new boiler , it will be under guarantee for x amount of years.
My boiler being Worcester Bosch will only be annually serviced by them . It costs more , but the method in my madness is that as no other company is maintaining it , they can't blame anybody else and in theory there shouldn't be any problems in the future 🤞

just a thought ..

Good point - that's what I was coming up against when it came to looking into grants.
Thanks - I'll see what the local companies can provide and then weigh up the options regarding the boiler itself. Makes sense not to give Worcester Bosch a chance to find an escape route with their guarantee by getting them to service it!

Bendy_House said:

Wow! That's some setup!

Ok, so you are already in the loft space? Cool - that's nicely out of the way. No, they cannot 'reuse' the old flue, but I'd hope that having that hole already in the roof would make the job a lot easier - they'd likely just need a new flashing.

'Significant' savings with the new boiler? Hmm, perhaps 10% - hopefully.

The F&E tank was the traditional method of these systems, and has  - I guess - the benefit of simplicity, along with the whole system being at a low pressure. Having it 'sealed' will be at a greater pressure, but that shouldn't be an issue. See the wee tank sitting on top of that hellish construction? That's the F&E tank, and it would be great to get shot of that.

No idea what that black/white control is - any chance of a closer shot? I thought it was a frost 'stat, but that's the square white thing beside it - it'll be cold up in the loft, so that will fire up the boiler if there's any risk of frost.

I'd get an extra layer of insulation on that hot tank too, to cut down heat loses up there.

No idea what that old flexi duct was. Where does that wall go?!

That is a very amateur-looking installation... :-(

Yes it's a bit of a nightmare setup to be honest. I wasn't too impressed when I first saw it in the house viewing (about 7 years ago) but it passed the inspection and has got through every annual service like that...somehow. I presume it was either the owner themselves that did it or maybe a friend.

Thanks regarding the clarification about the flue/flashing and for the explanation about the F&E tank. I could get a closer shot but I think that was covered in a further post - a pipe stat (whatever that does...haha). There generally seems to be a lot of controls related to the boiler which I've never seen before - for example we have the pipe stat, the British Gas box as well as the timer controls which are in a bedroom cupboard next to where the water tank is situated. Presumably all of that comes in one control unit these days, like a Nest?

Would insulation be something I could easily put in myself or would you recommend I get that done at the same time as the boiler is being installed?

Yes I'm not sure either - I suspect that the old ducting just goes into that part of the wall and stops somewhere - the next stop is next door's loft so I doubt it goes there (that's a separate part of the wall, situated behind which the CO2 alarm is sitting on).

Shoxt3r

On another note we have a handful of companies lined up to quote in the next week so fingers crossed we get some reasonable results from that and some more helpful advice on what to go for.

One suggestion already has been to switch to a combination boiler but that sounds pricey...

Thanks for all of the help so far!

Murmansk

Forgive me if this has already been said, but if you don't want to spend a huge amount of money, don't get British Gas to do it!!

plumb1_2

A lot of large companies like Worcester wouldn’t service/repair the boiler if it’s in a loft, unless it’s boarded out and with guard rails. A nice H&S get out clause.

Bendy_House

Shoxt3r said:

Ebe_Scrooge said:

Shoxt3r said:

Yeah that's the main aim really, spread the cost as much as possible.

I'm unsure if local businesses would offer this type of thing - lots of them are one-man band companies

What you need to remember is that anyone who offers you a finance option is supposed to be FCA registered.  The big companies like BG are registered, it's highly unlikely that your local family-run plumbing firm will be (though as has already been pointed out, that's the sort of people your really want to be doing the job).

Additionally, bear in mind that there's no such thing as free credit - someone has to pay for it somewhere along the line.  This may be made obvious (as in your car insurance, where it plainly states it costs more to pay monthly than it does if you pay in one annual premium).  If you see an offer of "interest-free" credit, I'd be willing to bet the cost of the job is inflated to cover the finance costs - no credit is truly interest-free.

A 0% purchase credit card might be an option - if you are eligible for one, and if your installer will accept credit cards (some large firms will, most "one-man-bands" won't).

Shoxt3r said:

I've mainly been looking into heating engineers - would this be covered under plumbing as well then? Sorry for being naive.

Strictly speaking, a plumber can do all the "watery" and "pipe-y" stuff, but won't do heating.  That's where a heating engineer is needed - they know boilers, and importantly are trained and licenced to deal with gas (do check that they're registered with the GSR www.gassaferegister.co.uk).  You will often find "plumbers" that are actually also GSR qualified, so they can do heating as well.

Yes, that makes sense - I think weighing up the options I'd rather go with a local firm anyway as like you say we're more likely to get a decent price. Thanks for the tips about plumbers/heating engineers - we've sourced a few companies locally who are on the Gas Safe Register (I thought Corgi registration still existed as a look-up but it seems to have long-been replaced with Gas Safe Register).

another_casualty said:

It's doubtful you'd get a grant OP 
If you are on universal credit ..and a home moaner then you would get a grant .
However, I'm not sure what companies offer this . Despite being with edf, I got the grant through eon . Cut off times also for applying etc . 

May be of help to others here..

Once you get your new boiler , it will be under guarantee for x amount of years.
My boiler being Worcester Bosch will only be annually serviced by them . It costs more , but the method in my madness is that as no other company is maintaining it , they can't blame anybody else and in theory there shouldn't be any problems in the future 🤞

just a thought ..

Good point - that's what I was coming up against when it came to looking into grants.
Thanks - I'll see what the local companies can provide and then weigh up the options regarding the boiler itself. Makes sense not to give Worcester Bosch a chance to find an escape route with their guarantee by getting them to service it!

Bendy_House said:

Wow! That's some setup!

Ok, so you are already in the loft space? Cool - that's nicely out of the way. No, they cannot 'reuse' the old flue, but I'd hope that having that hole already in the roof would make the job a lot easier - they'd likely just need a new flashing.

'Significant' savings with the new boiler? Hmm, perhaps 10% - hopefully.

The F&E tank was the traditional method of these systems, and has  - I guess - the benefit of simplicity, along with the whole system being at a low pressure. Having it 'sealed' will be at a greater pressure, but that shouldn't be an issue. See the wee tank sitting on top of that hellish construction? That's the F&E tank, and it would be great to get shot of that.

No idea what that black/white control is - any chance of a closer shot? I thought it was a frost 'stat, but that's the square white thing beside it - it'll be cold up in the loft, so that will fire up the boiler if there's any risk of frost.

I'd get an extra layer of insulation on that hot tank too, to cut down heat loses up there.

No idea what that old flexi duct was. Where does that wall go?!

That is a very amateur-looking installation... :-(

Yes it's a bit of a nightmare setup to be honest. I wasn't too impressed when I first saw it in the house viewing (about 7 years ago) but it passed the inspection and has got through every annual service like that...somehow. I presume it was either the owner themselves that did it or maybe a friend.

Thanks regarding the clarification about the flue/flashing and for the explanation about the F&E tank. I could get a closer shot but I think that was covered in a further post - a pipe stat (whatever that does...haha). There generally seems to be a lot of controls related to the boiler which I've never seen before - for example we have the pipe stat, the British Gas box as well as the timer controls which are in a bedroom cupboard next to where the water tank is situated. Presumably all of that comes in one control unit these days, like a Nest?

Would insulation be something I could easily put in myself or would you recommend I get that done at the same time as the boiler is being installed?

Yes I'm not sure either - I suspect that the old ducting just goes into that part of the wall and stops somewhere - the next stop is next door's loft so I doubt it goes there (that's a separate part of the wall, situated behind which the CO2 alarm is sitting on).

The system obviously works, but just looks very crudely laid out. Not a problem as it's out of sight...

A Nest will just take over the programming of times and temps, and not that other funny stuff. I imagine that much of it - the pipe and frost stat, for example - will be built in to the new boiler, but don't worry about that.

By extra insulation, I mean something as simple as a cylinder jacket, easy DIY.

The pipework really needs proper lagging too, since this is in a cold loft. That should be standard for an installer.

Bendy_House

Shoxt3r said:

On another note we have a handful of companies lined up to quote in the next week so fingers crossed we get some reasonable results from that and some more helpful advice on what to go for.

One suggestion already has been to switch to a combination boiler but that sounds pricey...

Thanks for all of the help so far!

Combis have pros and cons.

Pros - instant, endless hot water on demand. All the storage tanks are got rid of. If your mains water supply is good, you'll also have a resultingingly good hot and cold supply from your taps and shower.
Cons - a bit more expensive to buy. A bit more costly to install, certainly for the first time. More complex, so more likely to go wrong over time.

If you are completely happy with the performance of your current system - you taps and shower flow well - then probably best to stick with what you have, unless there's a good reason to change.